Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: Poss calcium deficiency....
Hi all,
Puku my kakariki hen over the last few days has come down ill. It started on Thursday when she wouldn't come out of her cage for a fly, she was eating, pooing, preening, bathing etc so I wasn't overly concerned. On Friday she didn't seem any better but no worse, I made an appointment at the vet for today. Sunday afternoon was the first time that she came out of her cage, she had a bit of a fly about but was flying very low to the ground and only for short flights. I thought she had perked up a bit but then this morning I came down to look at her and she was sitting on the bottom of the cage and sitting on the whole of the bottom of her leg, not just the foot, she was even walking with her legs like this and not gripping with her feet.
I took her to the vet who was entirely unhelpful, even though he was recommended to me as an avian vet (which I think now is more of an occupational hobby as opposed to being actually certified as an avian vet). He basically said that he 'thinks' its a calcium deficiency and advised me to put her into a small heated cage with no perches on and give her a calcium block.
I have put her into a heated cage with her normal food, water, a calcium block and a cuttle fish. She seems to have perked up a little since being in there for a few hours. I have also mixed some Avimix in with her food (recommended by another kak owner not the vet!) and she has eaten some of this. I was just wondering if this does sound like calcium deficiency, if not any ideas and if so is there anything else I should be doing? Oh, she is just over 6 months of age.
My problem is that if it is calcium deficiency I don't understand how she could be suffering from it, she has a calcium block, a cuttlefish and oyster shell grit available all the time... she nibbles on the cuttlefish reasonably regularly but basically leaves the others alone. Her diet consists of mostly veggies and fruit... mostly; spinach, rocket, water cress, curly kale, pea shoots, bak choi, baby chard, black berries (lots of those at the moment as they are in season here), apple, broccolli (occasionally as I have read that it hinders calcium absoption but I don't know how true it is), pear, raspberries, strawberries, grapes, greens, grass, beans, lentils, split peas, chick peas and various other veggies and fruits and she also gets given a seed mix but mostly eats the fresh food now.
Sorry for waffling! Any advice is very much appreciated : ) _________________
Add a couple drops of apple cidervinigar to water and veggie diet.
Also a post by Brett, some time ago something about kidney(?) and sciatica nerve.
It could also be related to defects from the breeding line, or in breeding by the breeder???
We have several threads of Kakariki in similar situations....I do not believe it to be normal problem with Kakariki, as we have never had it in any of our birds...except in one line where I experimented with back/inbreeding 2 generations down, a while back. I appeared in several off spring ranging from shortly after leaving the nest to around 9 to 10 months.
Breeding this line (both parents) back to new stock and it stopped.
I have other theories also...
It seems to occur more with 'pet birds' possibly because of hand rearing, where the chicks tend to use their legs early, possibly before they have developed full strength...this may result in a deformation of muscle/bone, causing a kidney or some other similar problem???
We do not handle chicks until adult feathers appear. _________________ My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
Thanks for your reply Steps. I will get some of the apple cider vinegar and see how she goes.
Puku was parent reared, so no worries there. _________________
There seems to be a few threads running on the same topic at the moment but as this is the latest I will add the recent findings from our vet who specialises in birds.
The young hen that we placed in their care was fluffed up and finding it difficult to fly. She was eating and drinking but just seemed down a bit on energy. The vets initial prognosis was perhaps egg binding or a calcium defficiency. In the first 24 hr period the bird was injected with calcium and at the same time gram stains were taken. This stains indicated an irregularity, but did not reveal any solid evidence. After 48 hours the bird showed no sign of improvement and by now had also become lame in her right leg. At this time the calcium injections were stopped and the bird put on 24 hourly injections of anti - inflamatory drugs. After 5 days the bird has shown a complete recovery and is now standing on both legs with full movement returning to the right leg.
The vets conclusion at this stage is that the bird has suffered from a type of virus that affects the kidneys. This virus appears to coincide with the breeding cycle and may in fact be present in all hens with only those birds having either low immune levels or subjected in increased stress levels likely to succumb to the illness. It has raised the question yet again as to how or what triggers this illness in some birds and not others.
We have compared notes with our vet and found that hens that are moved from a holding aviary into a aviary with a new mate are more likely to suffer than those birds placed with young cocks from an early age. It is also noted that those hens who show these symptoms are first time breeders. Once a hen has laid an initial clutch she is fine regardless of being moved or introduced to a new mate. Our vet is now making some further queries with their colleagues in the hope of finding more answers.
Steps, thank you so much for your advice.
I put the cidar vinegar in Pukus water and veggies this morning and she has made a massive improvement and I am sure she will go on to make a full recovery. After days of being unwell and very lethargic its great to see her getting better. So thank you again. _________________
Cider vinigar acts as a blood ph buffer...in us too
Before we actually show symptoms of geting sick, other than maybe a slight tiredness, the virus or infection whatever alters our blood ph slightly to creat a better enviroment for it to do its dirty work.
If the blood ph is buffered the ph doesnt change...it doesnt aleay stop getting crook, but if u do, u dont get as bad...
Birds animals, in the wild have alsorts of stuff to access things of this nature...We also did till processed food, came along.
It is more of a preventive than a cure, thu when sick, getting ph back would help recovery.
I spent a lot of time in the bush yrs ago...sometimes we would head out for a week with nothing but warm cloths, knife and or gun and few other small essentuals...I grew up in a time when the old bush men where still around thu pretty old by then...
There where 'tricks of the trade' they past on that seem to have been lost now. Things from poking stools with a stick to dry socks, good boots, and hat. Cider vingar...was another.
These basic things also apply with our birds, watching stools.
Hats/birds ...well no I dont thinks so but principle applies, a good, brimmed hat keeps u warm, dry, shaded and cool _________________ My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
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