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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - breeding, age and natural breeding season
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breeding, age and natural breeding season

 
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kakariki
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Joined: Oct 13, 2004
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 11:54 pm    Post subject: breeding, age and natural breeding season

My Kak´s have average clutches of 9 eggs. is this also in the wild?.
We also have to stop them breeding, because if you let them they will not
stop for 3 years (and about 15 clutches). Is this normal in nature?

What age can a kakariki become? (My oldest now is 7 years and in good health.)?

At what temperature do they breed in nature? What is the temperature
in spring, summer, autumn and winter?

On my site is a link to a document of new zealand. In that document the researchers determine the kak´s species by DNA. Are there photo´s of these species?


It seems to be that all wildcolour redfronted kak´s in Europe have
yellow feathers in the neck. It can´t be seen cause there are green feathers over them.
Only in mould or when you catch them and blow in the neck it is
possible to see the yellow feathers. Is this caused by breading in Europe or do wild kak´s also have these yellow feathers?.

(Edited a little by Admin)



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Steptoe
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Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 4507

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:46 am    Post subject:

1st off I would like to say that We are fairly new breeders, when measured against others here, but qualify our experiance by saying that we have a very long, highly experienced, and respected (within the parrot and DoC circles) couple as good freinds and mentors.
They are members here, but are rather new to the internet, forums and such, so please forgive them for not posting and me doing so on their behalf, in this thread, previous posts and future.
Quote:
My Kak´s have average clutches of 9 eggs. is this also in the wild?.

7 to 12 eggs is the norm in captivity and the wild, ave around 9 with a very high % fertility and surviving from the nest (leaving out perameters like rats , stouts etc)
Quote:
We also have to stop them breeding, because if you let them they will not stop for 3 years (and about 15 clutches). Is this normal in nature?

In capitivity in Auckland, yes this is not unusual, and depends on the individual pair, And even go much longer without any ileffects so long as support/diet etc is 100%....in the wild I do not know, but see no reason why not Depending on local climate condtions.
Quote:
What age can a kakariki become? (My oldest now is 7 years and in good health.)?

Well the 'books' vary, and usually state 5 to 7 yrs....This, I firmly believe is wrong...Heathy birds with good support in captivity someware between 14 and 20 yrs possibly hight than that. Breeding well into the the 14-20 yrs bracket.
Quote:
At what temperature do they breed in nature? What is the temperature
in spring, summer, autumn and winter?

In Auckland we can expect a last frost (2 deg C)in early Sept,1st eggs laid late Sept to Oct, often breeding right thru winter...A bad frost is 5 deg C temps vary around 7 to 15 deg winter 14 to 32 summer.
I have a site somewhere that has ave temps for diff parts of NZ, I will find it later...
Quote:
On my site is a link to a document of new zealand. In that document the researchers determine the kak´s species by DNA. Are there photo´s of these species?

I also added that Doc in our Web Links section, Your site is very well worth a visit http://www.kakariki.nl/

Quote:
It seems to be that all wildcolour redfronted kak´s in Europe have
yellow feathers in the neck. It can´t be seen cause there are green feathers over them.
Only in mould or when you catch them and blow in the neck it is
possible to see the yellow feathers. Is this caused by breading in Europe or do wild kak´s also have these yellow feathers?.


Yes ours have that to, althu even with moult one cant see it, its very visible on the chicks and noticed that the chicks leave the nest when it is no longer visible....If it is visible when they leave, they have a hard time, not quite ready to fly for a few days, Dad still needs to feed them a lot. Makes me wonder if it is for some special 'signal' for Dad to have them leave home or something.
The pics below are Young bird, 3 to 4 weeks out of the nest, blowing on the feathers moving up. One can just see the start of the patch in 1st pic and the patch in the 2nd. These Kikes have a known parentage going back many generations with no history of cross breeding or mutation. They would be as close to 'wild' as posible anywhere in NZ...



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Last edited by Steptoe on Mon May 16, 2005 8:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:31 pm    Post subject:

As posted above:
This would be I think the best site to study NZ weather variables
http://www.metservice.co.nz/default/index.php?alias=climateofnz
http://www.metservice.co.nz/default/index.php?alias=dataclimatesummaries192937
Kakariki, Red And Yellow ranged cross the whole country, but as to breeding seasons in the wild I think that could be difficult to estabish, as both common breeds have basically been extinct in the wild for around 70 to 100 yrs

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Last edited by Steptoe on Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
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pabloc
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Joined: Sep 26, 2007
Posts: 988

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: breeding, age and natural breeding season

Rob,

first thing... congratulations for your webpage. I have been visiting it from a bit more than a year ago, and I have found it a great place to find information and nice pics. Honestly I didn't know that you were around here too, and missed your "links" menu. Once again, congratulations, it's a magnificent webpage.

kakariki wrote:
My Kak´s have average clutches of 9 eggs. is this also in the wild?.
We also have to stop them breeding, because if you let them they will not
stop for 3 years (and about 15 clutches). Is this normal in nature?


I'm reading this properly? Do you mean 15 clutches in 3 years, so averaging 5 clutches per year each pair?

Honestly, I have heard, and know of cases, of bigger species like Eclectus, Alexandrines and some others, that may reach the 4 clutches/year mark if unsuccesful or babies pulled for handfeeding. Cockatiels and bourkes are other 2 species that hold a reputation of breeding continuously, but it's normally suggested to force them to rest after 2 clutches in a row, and preferably not letting them breed more than 3 times in a year (for instance, 2 clutches since early spring, then rest, then 1 clutch after summer). On the other hand I know of cockatiel breeders and 1 bourke breeder, that leave nests all year long, and birds eventually stop breeding themselves without interference.

My very own kakariki pair, after 2 clutches seem to be having a break. I retired the chicks +2 months ago, and no signs of breeding. Even no eggs or hen going into the nest. I prefer it like that, so that she doesn't lay right in the middle of the winter ("southern" Europe, exterior aviaries).

And now another 2 small question, that if you don't mind, I would like to add to those already made by you:

What's the average survival rate of the chicks, both in captivity and in the wild?

When ideally it's the best age for kakariki to start breeding? 1 year, more, less?

Thank you!

Regards / Pablo
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:22 pm    Post subject:

In the wild....
Well althu these are endangered, what research/knowledge of kakariki the wild is avalible is very limitted / sketchy or way out of date and fawed by limited environment studies.....to say the least.

We have well over 90% in capitivity and that is all nest rearing...no hand rearing.

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pabloc
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Posts: 988

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:43 pm    Post subject:

Thanks for your reply steptoe!

Do you know if the 90% survival rate is more or less general for all other breeders?

And yet anoter small question... what's the fertility rate?

thanks in advance!

Regards/ Pablo
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:35 am    Post subject:

90% plus seems very much actross the board
Depends how one measures
Egg to adult of 12 months
Chick to adult 12 month
or chick to leave the nest
or chick to leave nest and iris(idepedant) formed

I prefer the chick to 12 months which would be arond the 90%..
This tacks into accont natutral defornities that happen...occassionally get one that is weak a bad heart liver or something.

Fertility..that can vary hugely...weather, who is paired with who. diet, age of the birds, size of the birds and 101 other parameters that have yet to be figured out...

We breed in as natral conditions as possible in otside avairies...one yr its all on, now where to house the ofspring, another yr couple pairs will be great and the others hopless, and another yr none hardly even go to nest

Maybe under more controlled conditions things would be better..but we are not in it for the money or 'see what we can ge ot of them' Its just nice to have them arond, if the want to they can, if the dont...they are happy and so are we.

This all applies not just to kakariki but from my understanding most parrots....we currently keep/ breed kings, crimsons, burkes, turqs, quail and kakarki.

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pabloc
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Joined: Sep 26, 2007
Posts: 988

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:30 am    Post subject:

Hi Steptoe,

thanks for your info. I don't ask about this info. for the money neither, but it's always a good reference to crosscheck to other breeders' data, so if I had poorer results than the "average" I may be aware that something is going wrong with me.

I don't need ratios to the 2nd decimal either. Just a "a couple of infertile eggs each clutch" "half a clutch in a while" and that kind of things do the work!

I think it's fair to calculate survival rate from chick to 12month. Then for me, it's been below 50%, 2 first clutches for the couple. A female change on the way, and maybe add other par. I know the info. from 1 just pair is very random, but it's not nice watching the chicks die.

Thanks for your help!

Regards / Pablo
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