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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - Help needed with dying babies
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Help needed with dying babies

 
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natenla
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Joined: Dec 15, 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 4:50 pm    Post subject: Help needed with dying babies

2 of the 3 eggs that have hatched so far have died in the first day. I have taken a pic of the last one as I dont know if it's stomach area is normal or not, it looks very strange.

Any advise would be appreciated.



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Cattscapes
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 9:39 pm    Post subject: Help needed with dying babies

Hi natenla i to have lost babies the last 2 nights. I dont know were you are but here in Sydney it has been freezing at night. I think even though they like the cooler temps the babies are still vunerable at this young age. I have some babies that are 10 days old and they seem fine. Also is it there first clutch? Sometimes they lose a couple to start with. Cheers Kevin
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Steptoe
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Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 4550

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 8:58 am    Post subject:

I used to worry about the odd chicks dieing....
Over the yrs of observation I have come to the conclusion it is too much to expect 100% survival.
Do not loose the sight of natural selection.
Weak/defective chicks are hatched, some survice to exit the nest, and die some weeks later, others die at a very early age.
Parents that are not related, rarely loose chicks.
If one parent has been inbreed (in particular the female) or the parents are related the instance of chicks that dont survive increases. It seems from our trials to breed a genitic line with certain trates, it is at the 3rd generation the mortality rate goes up dramatically. They appear not deformed but rather weak in consitution and more prone to extremes of weather and conditions.
Lower egg numbers and/or lower number of eggs hatching also occurs
Unfortunately, Kakariki in captivity, due to supply and neglet of sourcing new breeding stock, many breeders end up inbreeding

What I am saying is, "dont kick yourself that u have done something wrong."

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natenla
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Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 2:17 pm    Post subject:

Thanks for replying. I know it is no fault of my own and I relise I cant get 100% success (unfortunatly Sad !)but was hoping there might be some reason.
The last one that I posted the pic of I think may have had something wrong with it. I was told from someone else it looked like a navel infection that occured while in the egg.
Not sure about the first baby, as was said it may have been weak. It had a couple red marks on on it so perhaps the parents killed it?
I am in QLD but the city I am in can get freezing at night!! Even through the days! So much for warm, sunny QLD!! LOL
When I removed the last baby the nest was being kept warm by mum. She very rarely leaves the nest! I thought she may have squashed them? But the one is doing well. Hopefully the rest of the eggs that hatch will be fine.
This is their first clutch and they are not related. I dont realy know about the parents breeding though. The cock I got from a pet store and the hen from a small backyard breeder, but pretty sure she is not inbred. He is a good breeder even though small.
Thanks again, nice to have some reassurance.
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Kaka-riki
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Posts: 363

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 10:13 pm    Post subject:

Natenla,
Judging by the pic you have posted I would suggest the parents have not fed the chicks that have since died. The crop area of chick is completely empty and at that age you can usually see whether there is any sign of food in the crop area. There are several reasons why this happens.

1) As pointed out by Steptoe there may in fact be something wrong with the chicks and mum has neglected them because of this. The pic also highlights that the umbilical cord area has not been cleaned properly. This is one of the first things a hen does so it is possible a defect at birth has been spotted by the hen and she has abandoned the affected chicks. The incubation process of the egg is the most critical time. If the temperature drops during the night and the hen is does not keep the eggs at the ultimate temperature the resultant chicks could suffer. Nature is without doubt more effective than any vet and the hen will know if the chicks are not going to survive.

2) Lack of food source. Quite often a pair of Kakariki will select one item from their selection of fresh foods. Once they start feeding the clutch this particular food is the base food they require. For example, we have a couple of breeding pairs that more than double their requirement for endive while raising chicks. Yet another pair require additional sprouted seeds as they raise their young. The trick is to observe the birds when you put the fresh food into the aviary. There will always be a favourite but this seems to vary amongst the breeding pairs. By increasing that particular food during the raising of chicks the birds seem to be far more settled and the amount of birds raised as a result has risen dramatically in our experience. If at all possible the feeding of fresh food should be increased to morning and evening feeds. If that is not possible simply incease the amount of food supplied, at the normal time.

Keep an eye on the birds ,but try not to interfere too much. Young breeding birds can easily become spooked and will kill their young if they feel the nest is being threatened. You should notice the hen spending more time out of the box once the chicks are a few weeks old. Once that happens the nest inspections seem to have less impact on the parents.
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Allen
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Joined: Oct 14, 2004
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 10:26 pm    Post subject:

Sorry about your loss.

I agree with kakariki. The chick was not being fed and the parents abanded it and it died of cold and hunger. A number of birds often get it wrong with their first clutch and loose most or all of their chicks. They then go on to breed again and turn out to be fantastic consitent parents.

As sad as this loss is, you will probably find this pair will nest again within a month or so and raise their next clutch perfectly.

There were some posts a long while back about kakariki not feeding chicks. Someone said that they put an older chick from another nest in to stimulate the parents instinct to feed.
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 10:28 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
There will always be a favourite but this seems to vary amongst the breeding pairs.

I have never realy thought about that before...Thu ours are the same.
The veg mix we use in diet thread, in flights with pairs, each pair doesnt eat certain parts as much as another...hence one flight may have silverbeet remaining, another broccolli and cellery.

So the flight that doesnt eat much of say, sliverbeet, when I take the handfulls out of the bulk feed container I choose spots in the container that doesnt have much silver beet.
When feeding the holding flight with many Kakariki, everything goes.

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Kaka-riki
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Joined: May 30, 2005
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:29 am    Post subject:

Steps,
Small things such as favourite foods seem to make a BIG difference in not only clutch sizes but also the overall size and health of the young. We have been experimenting with this and a few other ideas recently and have recorded the results in readiness for that book you and I will one day put in print. cheers
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Peter
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Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 599

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:13 am    Post subject:

Some novice mother birds are not able to produce crop milk when they have to feed for the first time. A young chick can not longer live on the yolk sack in his stomach than 12 hours after hatching.
Another older chick of 5 days should stimulate the mother to produce cropmilk.
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natenla
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Joined: Dec 15, 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:48 pm    Post subject:

Well just an update on how things are going. The surviving baby is going really well, and there is another baby that has hatched now! Seems to be doing well so far. Fingers crossed things keep going well!
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Allen
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Joined: Oct 14, 2004
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:06 am    Post subject:

Glad to hear that things are going well.

I lost a Senegal baby two days ago. It is winter here and temperatures drop to about 5 Celcius on a clear night.

The pair are good breeders and parents normally breed every year in June and again in October. They usually have only two chicks at a time. This time they had three and the youngest died aged seven days old with a full crop. I am pretty sure that it died of the cold as the mother probably had difficulty keeping all three warm.

The other two are thriving.
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