Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:27 pm Post subject: PLEASE HELP aggressive kakariki biting my face
I'm new to this page thingy so bear with me.
We have had our Male Kakariki for 5 months and his wings are not clipped so he can fly around the place. He has always been a biter and sometimes he really hurts.
I used to yell at him however, i read that is not a good thing to do. I give him a gentle tap on the beak when he bites me and say No very firmly. It sometimes works and sometimes he just gets more aggressive.
We have just purchased a young female kakariki that we bought home yesterday. Since then he has been EXTREMELY aggressive towards me. I have had them with me today in the dinning room and her wings are clipped so I had her on my shoulder and on my head and he was talking more and jumping all about and then he just ATTACKED My face!
Then its just gotten worse. She is on my shoulder now and he keeps attacking my fingers as i type ( they are hard bites. Have i done something wrong? He he trying to protect her? I mean they only just met? Its really upsetting me?
She also took his sleeping perch last night and he didn't even try and get her off? is he being a gentleman or is he scared of her?
I would love to know how to stop him from biting all together and would like to know any how to stop him doing this ? I don't want him to be aggressive.
I've read somewhere that if he is biting we should be holding him for 15 minutes a day and put some thick gloves on and just let him bit us? this doesn't seem right ? I really don't want this to escalate.
Bottom line, u have trained him t be THE alpha male of the household..
Sort of like parents who want to be their children's 'best friend' and they are too scared to re take command of the household and be the parents...
'Alpha male' calls the shots, establishes what is acceptable behavour.
He hurts u, or anyone, he learns not to by getting hurt, that tiny little bit more back...
Ther is time for fooling around, being friends , then there is time maintaining, in your case establishing , behavours.
I used to yell at him however, i read that is not a good thing to do.
Well yell ....and body language, lower voice(tone) threatened u will boil him up for the cat dinner and other terrible stuff... AND mean it...
Along with , a good tap on the beak.....if doesnt work.
I had a mature sulphur crested I captured out of the wild.....when he bit, I would simply pick up his wing and bite back a fraction harder than he me, then carry on as if nothing happened.....didnt take long for him to know who was boss...
By the same token, we would play together other times, and wasnt long before we both trusted each other without question
I could causally walk along and as passing him pick him up by a wing or neck and he wouldnt mind....he would sit up t his neck in a swimming pool with me....
discipline is discipline, play is play.. they are very different and separate things....trouble is in this PC BS world they are too often considered , wrongly , the same
Stop being afraid to discipline.. he knows u are and plays on it. _________________ My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
it is not the yelling...no one takes any notice of yelling, ranting and raving.. be it kids in a class room or a bird.... they just roll their eyes with a "here we go again..no self control" and no respect, attitude
But lower the voice tone, get in their face, and MEAN what u say....
Back to the cage?
thats like sending naughty children to their room ... to play with their toys.
Deal with it there then, firm, quick simple... over and done ... move on
u set the boundaries.. they step over it , they get their foot stomped on .. figuratively speaking....not now and again, all the time, doesn't take long for them to realise its just not fun stepping over them...and the stop doing it. _________________ My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
Thanks for the feed back. I have tried this and my hands have bite marks all over them. I am being as firm as i can. I speak to him with a low booming voice then i tapped him on the beak then i put him down and he went me again.
My partner has brought out some gloves so i'll just keep trying. He has not been this aggressive before.Also i think he must really like the female kakariki that we bought home as he has been regurgitating in her mouth all night and all day. Does this mean they want to breed? Should i go out and buy a nesting box ?
Firstly under no circumstances should you physically discipline your pet, you have acquired them and by doing so accept full responsibility for their quality of life and wellbeing. Communicating with your pet bird is difficult and takes patience, time and understanding, understanding of their body language and what they are trying to tell you. A display of discipline in human context is not affective because a bird does not understand our ways as we do not understand them fully. Try observing your birds body language, listen to their sounds to understand when the "aggressive" nature starts to dominate their character and perhaps you will notice an opportunity to change what you are doing to stimulate this behaviour. Kakariki's are an unusual species of bird in terms of their characters and you will find it takes time to bond with them however being said they are fantastic companions and I encourage you to consult an avian vet to provide you with some professional behavioural advice.
I hope this helps you and your Kak
Firstly under no circumstances should you physically discipline your pet, you have acquired them and by doing so accept full responsibility for their quality of life and wellbeing.
There is discipline and there is abuse.. both VERY different..
A HUGE part of taming training is about making use of the social/ community behaviours of the species in the wild. Be it a nip or vocal , what ever....
In this modern so called civilised world this PC BS is far too often taken to the extreme rather than having a natural sensible balance
Firstly under no circumstances
Such extreme one sided statements met these extreme one sided unnatural , artificial PC BS attitudes... and at the end of the day negativity effect the well being of ALL concerned.
What is a the general result of this extreme PC is that the pet bird doesnt get to fully understand the social structures of its environments, and as a result of this tends to spend most of their lives locked up in small spaces...
What is described in these forums is no more than social interaction observations of these birds in a established flock situation.. or put another way.. how to create stable relationships as they do in the wild flocks... that has evolved over 100s of 1000s of yrs.
This is not cruelty or abuse ... locking animals away (legally) because of lack of results due to extreme, PC BS, do gooder, out of touch, attitudes is.[/quote] _________________ My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
It is obvious that caging an animal based on a lack of results is the not right way to go about things and applied in this instance a lack of results seems apparent with the continued biting and aggression as mentioned in the owners comments above. The lack of our understanding of this particular Kakariki's environment means that we should not jump to the conclusion this bird has been trained as the Alpha male, perhaps there are other reasons contributing to this behaviour, and it is that one sided opinion I am trying to overcome by providing other options for the owner to explore. There are plenty of reasons beyond "Alpha male syndrome" to cause a bird to become aggressive and by reacting in such a way to tap the beak maybe encouragement enough to ensure the bird continues this behaviour to simply provoke a reaction from it's owner or for the bird to distance itself further from it's new "flock ". It is also important to understand that everyone has different physical strength so a gentle tap is not a consistent and reliable source of advice and I'm sure behavioural experts would agree this is not a productive method to achieving results.
My opinions are formed based on advice from behavioural experts I have employed and encourage people to consult professionals when at a loss.
W have over many decades tamed down/ trained a lot of parrots.. including adults from the wild.
Bottom line it comes down to this...
They like many other animals behave and respond to stimulus that is found within the social structure of the flock.. to 'pull them into line'.. to establish their position within that 'flock'... the "flock " includes the human family when in captivity...
Granted every once (thu rarely) and a while one comes across a rogue ' bird.
Which when in a flock, either destories that flock or is banished or 'disposed of within that flock....A rogue bird in captive family home situation MAY be able to be sorted with professional help and a lot of time... but the reality is most homes/ owners do not have the time or money to do so.. and the bird is basically disposed of or exiled to a cage
Funny that.. basically as to what happens in flock situations...
Bottom line.. spend a lot of time with flocks of birds , study watch how pecking orders or sorted, how stroppy teenagers are disciplined, how new additions to the flock are handled, how the structure of the flock works.. ie number pairs , single adults, how young straight t out of nests are looked after by single males.. just to name a few things...
Then when a new addition to a family is made, have each member of that family react to that bird/ animal in the same manner as would happen between a member of their position in that flock.. or what position they need to be in for a harmonious family relationship.
Its not complex.. other than having the knowledge as to what happens within a flock... which most people have not had the opportunity to observe and study over many decades.
Its about pecking order and how that is established by who....
It is also important to understand that everyone has different physical strength so a gentle tap is not a consistent and reliable source of advice
u have got to be joking right? a tap with the back of a finger nail and considering the aggression that is used in a flock situation...I is very unlikely that most owners would never have a tap to reach this level.
The measure of aggression to establish pecking orders where a particular bird is trying it on in a flock is basically....slightly more than what the offending bird does, and it expends till one of the birds submits to the lower pecking order
It starts with vocal indignation and finishes where ever
Now pass that by your behavioural 'experts' and u will find the above is the basis all successful trainers/ experts work on.. be it dogs cats, birds whatever.
Its just a matter of deciding what part of the pecking order u want to be of the flock/ pack and doing what members of that pack do to be there.[/quote] _________________ My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:15 am Post subject: Kak's Behaviour
It seems you have one answer for everything positioning in a flock, understand this is not a normal environment for a bird to be in and the disciplinary actions amongst a flock of birds is different when interacting with humans. They are not children or teenagers, you cannot adopt the same attitude and even if you do I don't think it would create a strong relationship but rather one of fear and intimidation. And yes I am serious a tap on the beak while you think is a unit of measure isn't and it really only trains people to be aggressive towards their animals which is the same behaviour one is trying to eradicate from their pet. What would happen if someone took your advice and it did not work? perhaps they would try a harder "tap"?
Simply tapping a bird on the beak is not going to solve the issue of the Kak's aggression or is it? The advice was based on an interpretation that the bird has been trained as the Alpha male yet did not explore what other circumstances may be contributing to the behaviour.
My message is that perhaps a greater understanding of the circumstances would allow someone to provide more affective advice rather than jumping to conclusions without barely scratching the surface.
And finally if you have money for a pet bird you can afford to consult a professional they aren't that expensive as you find these people are in it for the love of their careers rather than the dollars and cents.
It seems you have one answer for everything positioning in a flock, understand this is not a normal environment for a bird to be in and the disciplinary actions amongst a flock of birds is different when interacting with humans.
Really?.. u miss the point.. its Not the birds or whatever animal species reaction interacting with the human... its ALL about how THE HUMAN becoming part of the the flock.. or in other words "do as the romans ...."
We have the abilty to to adapt far easier and reality than the animal... Therefore we as individuals establish where we stand in their pecking order.. and do so according to THEIR behaviours in their social environments.
Doing so doesnt create intimidation... that argument followed thru would mean all non human animal socialising is based on intimidation.
where an animal is (perceived ) as aggressive by nipping / biting, and most other anti social behaviour in most circumstances is a behaviour that has unintentionally been trained into / encouraged by the owners PC BS reactions... usually encouraging even further in to a fun game with rewards.
Its about setting boundaries of behaviour not intimidation.. intimidation is when excessive force is used to discipline.. that is abuse.
ie to train a dog to walk close at heel...using a lead and collar to hold him close. even if is uncomfortable when strays outside the path.. in your books results intimidation... beating a dog if strays is abuse, over kill...a quick short pull on the lead is the equivalent of a "tap".
Again I strongly suggest that u go back and consult the behavioural consultants u need to employ, further.
As I stated we have worked with trained many species over the decades, even mature parrots..including sulphur crested out of the wild.
In the latter case, discipline in the wild is a nip on the wing... yep same thing to do in captivity .. kakariki it is a little more difficult to do so.
I think that u have a misconception / picture in your head and are unable to move beyond that misconception of the above advice, not being able to see anything beyond that perception/ interpretation _________________ My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
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