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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - Feather loss while on medicine
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Feather loss while on medicine

 
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Lindsey
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:18 pm    Post subject: Feather loss while on medicine

Hello

I've read alot here about mites and ivermectine, etc..
But.. I think something strange is going on with my bird??

Few weeks ago, the vet told me, he had bloodmite and probably other mites. so she gave me the medicine "Ivomec" another name for ivermectine.
But... last monday, I gave him his 2nd drop.. (just one drop in the neck, because the vet told me, it's too dangerous to do more, because it's a very heavy treatment.Wink

But now the red area that goes from the beak to his eyes, is starting to become a bit bald.
He never had baldness before.. not even 2 weeks ago, when we started treatment.
But.. I noticed that 4 days before his 2nd treatment, he scratched alot more again, especially the eye area and head.
and became quiet again..
(Now he got the 2nd drop again, few days ago, and talks again, tries to fly and is reacting to the sounds of birds bit by bit again which is good!)
He's improving alot, but "now" his eye area become bald at a small pace?? Crying or Very sad
Is it normal??? I still have to do 1 treatment (3rd time) and then I must stop procedure, or call the vet.. because she told me to do it for only 3 times for now..

I also mist sprayed the cage with 50/50 water/vinegar after cleaning it with dettol.. Yesterday I found dead bloodmites outside his cage while searching for it with a microscopic glass..

His face is staying itchy.. but with the ivermectine, is goes better for a while.. but when the product is working out.. he is scratching more again :-&

What can I do? maybe put garlic in his water too?
He also is getting the apple cider vinegar few times a week already..

Maybe I must call the vet that he needs longer treatment with the ivermectine instead of 3 times??

Thanks alot for your time! Laughing
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:14 am    Post subject:

Invermectin is a very effective mite worm remedy
no it will not cause feather loss.
What period do u have between doses?
The cage/ area was all cleaned down THEN mist sprayed with 50/50 vinegar water soln?

The other thought, and its been recorded that in europe and other continents that many species of mites and warms are becoming resistant to most drugs including invermectin because of incorrect/ incomplete application routines.

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Lindsey
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:05 am    Post subject:

Steptoe wrote:
Invermectin is a very effective mite worm remedy
no it will not cause feather loss.
What period do u have between doses?
The cage/ area was all cleaned down THEN mist sprayed with 50/50 vinegar water soln?

The other thought, and its been recorded that in europe and other continents that many species of mites and warms are becoming resistant to most drugs including invermectin because of incorrect/ incomplete application routines.


I have 2 weeks between the doses, (on the 14th day, he gets a new drop) though.. I read here 10-12 days? (I'm just scared of overdosing) ^_^"
Yes, the cage was first cleaned, in and outside, and then mist sprayed with 50/50 vinegar and water solution

Yeah, I heard something about that! That's what I'm so scared of, that nothing will help Sad
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:24 pm    Post subject:

u could try parrifin oil.. and oent take much then repeat several times 10 to 12 days over 3 or 4 cycles.
This is a personal theory
What it is based on is old school before big drug companies decided we needed to buy their drugs...And how we controlled nits from school with our children... how my mother did it and how our children are currently doing so.
With the children, a comb is dipped into kerosene (paraffin) it doesnt sting on broken skin etc... then combed thru the hair till just moist... takes stuff all.
Then leave for around 20 minutes, then wash out with soap, then shampoo as normal....hair goes real soft.

So thinking , by cotton bud apply as little as possible to effected areas and surrounding area...

Over does with invernmectin....I have and another breeder here of great experience, over dosed rather seriously accidentally on separate occasions....with no ill effect.. we are talking 4 to 6 drops at once.
I do not recommend going down this route... If resistance is there over dose will not help

The idea of the 10 to 12 days
invermecton is absorbed into the blood stream, the mites drink the blood and they die... in the mean time the eggs mature and just before they hatch , the bird/ animal gets a booster, they eat the blopd and die before can lay more eggs....and the same applies to internal worms

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Lindsey
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:47 pm    Post subject:

So, actually waiting 14 days is too long ? ^^
I should try the 10-12 days??

I'll also try the other product you've just mentioned Wink


Thank you very much! Gosh, things can get really stressy with these things haha!

Could it be that those mites can come from bad/old seed?
Because I few months ago, while I was picking out the sunflower seeds, I saw something very tiny, white/creamish walking very fast over the seeds!
So I immediately threw it away!
I actually wanted to contact the shop, but in a way, I don't dare too, or, it might not help.. Since the guy's got a temper.
But... If seeds can carry eggs.. or also mites and other parasites.. then the shop is making more pets ill Shocked

I feel really bad about it, that I gave the food to my bird, I'm the one who probably got him sick.. Yet I didn't know there was a possibility of affected seeds with parasites or mites :-&
I feel like a bad owner really.. and it's my first bird in years, so.. I'm really attached to it, which makes it even worse to see him suffer Laughing

Hey, but feathermites, they also die from the ivermectine, (if they are not resistant yet)? because, the end of his tail, and some flightfeathers are really out of shape.. It's like you combed the feather backwards..
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:10 am    Post subject:

mites bite and feed on the blood which includes feather mites...
I dont believer the critters your saw in the seed are mites, but more likely be a weavel type insect... basically part of the life cycle of a small moth.
See small moths in a pantry and u have weavels.
These do no harm , other than the yuk factor...and are high protein for the birds.....down side.. the seed shells have no seed inside

mites, like nits , tend to transfer by direct contact and often in packing, and cage items.....in captivity, from pet shops.
Hence why u see so often in these forms about isolation of any new birds till one is sure they dont carry anything... often from several months.

Diet has a huge effect on overall good health...which includes such things as aromatic herbs like mint, rosemary, even a little lavender.... these things birds use to prune with... natural insecticide.

Captive birds we tend to treat the same as our children in modern western society...fill them up with crap manufactured foods then wonder why they are obese, sick all the time,have food , pollen allergies and intolerances.

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Lindsey
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:15 am    Post subject:

Yes indeed, that's why I'm trying to introduce him into more foods, herbs etc Laughing

He's now 11 months old, doesn't like vegetables at all, I even have bought rosemary and mint, and balsamic etc.. (the lavender still needs to grow haha)
He only took tastes of the parsley and mint, but more like "take a bite, taste it, and spit it back out haha!
However, I keep trying Laughing
Same goes for vegetables.. he's only eating lettuce (the very crunchy one called Iceberg lettuce)
Everything I've bought, like carrots, peas, corn, broccoli etc, he just takes a lick haha! I really have to eat it in front of him XD

I just really hope I can get rid of the mites..
This afternoon, I treated the affected areas with a cotton bud, with apple cider vinegar and water solution, it seems the itchyness is almost gone again! he does scratches his head, but not that constant today..
Because yesterday evening, he kept scratching like mad! and now on this hour (22.12 PM) he's all calm.. It's fascinating how some home remedies work! Laughing

But it's also with your help and from others on this forum which helped alot!! Because the avian vets or any vet in our country, really lack knowledge or just do something,.. It's kinda frustrating!
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:02 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
It's fascinating how some home remedies work! Laughing

Why?
It is no different as to what animals do, they now what to eat when, if they did not they would have become extinct 1000s of years ago
So what is so different for the human animal?
OH yeah our big ego that we could not be like other animals....
Got a headache, use some willow bark right? these days the chemical companies call it aspirin.

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Georg
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:44 am    Post subject:

Do you have a picture of your kak? The appearance the featherlost looks like?
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Lindsey
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Joined: Feb 11, 2014
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:36 am    Post subject:

Georg wrote:
Do you have a picture of your kak? The appearance the featherlost looks like?


Here are the requested pictures.. first picture is from the right eye, and below, the left eye..
Since I treated only those areas now, with apple cider vinegar and garlic, the scratching is almost over, now he only tend to scratch more on the back of it's neck (that's where we also put the ivomec (ivermectin)

I also added garlic to his food, and I think it is helping.. I have to wait and see a bit more. I added that, because I strongly believe, the ivomec doesn't help that much... because 3-4 days after the 2nd drop in the neck, the itch got worse by day again.. So I decided to put garlic in his food, and with the bath of apple cider vinegar water, things are slightly getting better again.

I hope those stupid bugs will die and go away soon!

Oh! by the way, how much may a kakariki weigh?? between 60 and 70 grams?? Definitely not more??



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Peter
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Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 599

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:20 am    Post subject:

Hi Lindsey,

I would give the bird some time. Ivermectin is a very powerfull medicine. The mites should be dead now. Featherloss around the eyes happens often when something is irritating behind or around the nose/eyes, e.g. sinusitis in human. By rubbing with their nose against the perch they try to remove the irritation.

The weight of a Kakariki is variable. For males the average is somewhere between 70 and 80 gr. Females between 60 and 70 gram. There are extreems. The heaviest male and female in my possession are respectively 83 and 72 gr.
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Lindsey
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Joined: Feb 11, 2014
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:46 pm    Post subject:

Peter wrote:
Hi Lindsey,

I would give the bird some time. Ivermectin is a very powerfull medicine. The mites should be dead now. Featherloss around the eyes happens often when something is irritating behind or around the nose/eyes, e.g. sinusitis in human. By rubbing with their nose against the perch they try to remove the irritation.

The weight of a Kakariki is variable. For males the average is somewhere between 70 and 80 gr. Females between 60 and 70 gram. There are extreems. The heaviest male and female in my possession are respectively 83 and 72 gr.


Hmm okay!

I just can stop worrying, because I seem him scratching whole the time, or when the ivomec is running out for a new dose, he's getting more tired again, sleeps alot.. that's what concerns me..
he's now on his 4th week, of ivomec (had 2 doses) but he's still suffering from itchyness on his nose, cheeks, and head.. is that normal??
Shouldn't the ivomec reduce the itchyness? Laughing

oh!! and the area where he is standing (in the living room) his whole seat where he is standing on is covered with white-ish eggs, and here and there a black dot.. (I've put oil on the seat so that mites can't go to him etc.. but wow.. after a week they still are with lots! trying to get him..
I hope they will all stick in it and die aswell haha!


Oh!! and I see! When I bought my male he was only 62 grams... but weighing him last time (after 4 months, he's already 80 grams) XD
So I thought he would be too heavy by now Shocked
haha!

But thanks for your help!!
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