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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - Urgent help required please, mother abandoned chicks
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Urgent help required please, mother abandoned chicks

 
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jamie
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:59 pm    Post subject: Urgent help required please, mother abandoned chicks

Hey Folks,

I have been reading this forum and since I am a newb to Kaks i have not really had much contribution, I am now in desperate need of help.

I have moved since my last post and am now on 1/2 acre block and have my birds in a proper Aviary. It measures 3.6mtrs wide, 4mtrs deep and 3.6 mtrs tall. Thats my show one.

The breeding aviary is 7mtrs wide, 3mtrs tall and 3.6mtrs deep. Cut into 3 runs but the kaks in there are yet to breed.

Of course it is the Kaks in my show aviary that have decided to breed. I got given the female as she is blind in one eye and the pet shop couldn't sell her and were going to destroy her, so i gave her a home. She is a cinnamon and paired up with a green. She had one batch of eggs on the ground, as i had no nesting boxes in there. The chicks died within 24hrs, i assumed cause it was dead mid winter and we had below zero nights.

within a week she had laid a 2nd batch of eggs, so i put in a nesting box and moved the eggs in. She eventually laid 9 eggs and again bought out 8 chicks, I left them alone and after a week checked and they were all dead.

I asked the pet shop and they were not really much help but suggested i up their feed of greens and include Endives which i had not been feeding.

She has laid another batch and bought out 3 chicks from 6 eggs so far, but tonight she has abandoned them in the nest and is perching with the male. It is set to be below zero here tonight and i am going to grab the babies out and hand raise them. 2 are 2 days old and the 3rd is just over 24hrs old.

The shops are all closed, so i need some diy food for them to keep them going until the morning. also I am setting up an old fish tank for a brooder with a heat lamp, shavings in the bottom covered in paper towel.

I have read through the posts and reckon i have a pretty good idea of what to do and I am going to give it my best shot as i cant stand to loose another batch. But in this emergency until i can get some formula tomorrow can anyone suggest something to keep them going tonight.

Sorry for the long winded post. But wanted to give as much info as i can.

Thanks in advance

Jamie

duno duno duno duno
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:58 am    Post subject:

The most probable cause is that the parants, maybe foe a several generations have been hand raised and not learnt to look after/ feed chicks.
Did the dead chicks have full crops?
We have seen this in burkes, crimson wings and quail.
Emergency...
Mash up some peas, beetroot, pumkin, sweet corn (remove the outter coating) with a little finely chopped meat
and mash real well into a watery slopp.

This is my OPINION.. what I would do, without hesitation, in an emerecy such as yourself..it is untried as far as I know...

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pabloc
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject:

why donīt you simply prepare baby formula, that you can probably buy in any gas station?

or as steps says just boil some veggies and process with the mixer and there u go...
itīs basically what babies were fed here in Spain before canned food became popular, same food as adults, just processed with a mixer for the lack of teeth
but I think this would be more useful for older chicks, as you may have a hard time to make it small enough for such small chicks.

for very very young chicks like you have Iīd go with baby formula until I could buy handfeeding formula

btw... have you tried placing the chicks in another coupleīs nest, even if they are not breeding there was a recent case from one of the UK guys here in the forum that worked

best of luck, donīt be disencouraged if the chicks die because itīs very difficult to raise them from such a young age without previous experience handfeeding

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jamie
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:41 pm    Post subject: Mother Kak is just plain strange

Thanks so much for your advise guys. I ended up doing a split of both. Fed them a recipe i found for generic baby birds. Farex, apple sauce, peanut butter and veg and blitzed up.

As it was a hot day the following day, i thought i would see what happened if i put them back in the nest.

Low and behold, mum hammered me the second i took them into the aivary and i placed them back in their nest. She has not left them since. I have left them there to let nature take its course. My local bird shop thought it might have just been cause of a small cold snap she vacated. Anyways, they are now 5 days old and going strong. They are calling for a feed every time mum is out.

Now I will just leave them alone and see what happens.

Thanks for the feeding info Steptoe, I have made up your recipe. Just added endives. And they are loving it.

Thanks for all your help with my stressing.

Jamie
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pabloc
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:40 pm    Post subject:

I didnīt notice the cold snap thing... I guess it may affect kakariki too.
This spring-summer has been a disaster for me due to the sudden low temperatures. My cockatiels abandoned eggs over and over again, only 3 pairs managed to raise chicks successfully.

I also had 3 pairs of kakariki with nests, 1 of them has been breeding for the last 3 years without problems and this spring they abandoned 2 clutches of eggs... which is very unlikely of them. Every time they raise 4-6 chicks superbly.
The other 2 pairs as they didnīt breed together before I didnīt pay too much attention to them leaving the eggs but now that you mentioned it... I wouldnīt be surprised.

I donīt know if Steps or the other veteran breeders had any problems due to sudden cold weather in the middle of spring/summer

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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:44 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Thanks for the feeding info Steptoe, I have made up your recipe. Just added endives. And they are loving it.


That was off the top of my head Shocked
Quote:
This is my OPINION.. what I would do, without hesitation, in an emerecy such as yourself..it is untried as far as I know...

The basis is that this is what our birds get feed, what the parents chew up and feed to their chick, simply eliminating the birds crop.

Glad it has worked out....
Cold snap, now way, at all....we ave kakariki laying and even hatching out eggs raising chicks in late winter spring frosts, sudden cold snaps....NEVER an issue...
Advice from bird shops...well they have to at lease sound authorive... even if they usually spout a load of BS.
Ask your bird shop person if u should be feeding chopped up chicken bones or if a good idea to throw a fish carcass into the avairy?
And when they say "No" ask why not
then ask well how is it such a huge proprtion of their diet is meat and protein in the wild?
If a shop is to give advice on a 'product' then then should.... NEED to know about that product.

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manders
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:51 pm    Post subject:

2 years ago we had -10C for two weeks, chicks hatched on xmas day in the middle of the cold snap and fledged without problems.
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jamie
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:45 am    Post subject: Update

Hey guys, thanks so much for your help. Babies are doing great, 2 are huge and their coloured feathers are just coming through. One is a few days behind but doing well.

I cleaned their nest box out today. They are so strong. My wife held them in her jumper while I cleaned the box. She got so clucky, ill have to watch myself for a bit Wink

Any further advice would be good if anyone has some pointers for me to get the best from here on. This is the first time I have had baby parrots. Finches in the past but they don't require anything at all to breed. So I am a real novice.

I'm reading through all the posts here to. Thanks for the great resource

<v> Wink <v> <v> <v> <v>
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:06 am    Post subject:

Quote:
I cleaned their nest box out today. They are so strong. My wife held them in her jumper while I cleaned the box

We have NEVER cleaned a nesting box while chicks present..never seen a reason to do so.
The old sawdust, poo is great fertiliser around flowering plants in the veggie garden... tomatos, beans, peas...make cali and broccolli go to seed to fast thu.

Our nesting boxes are screwed together basically 1/2" thich x 10" wide untreated pine...they get dismantled...only need partly to do so partly... blasted with the hose, set to dry in the sun, then with about a 3/4 to 1" lpg torch, the wood surface burnt.
The carbon is good for the birds, 100% sterilised with no chemicals, and look natural, good when hanging in the avaries over a plain or painted nesting box.

'Holding/ show' avairy
Quote:
It measures 3.6mtrs wide, 4mtrs deep and 3.6 mtrs tall.

Deep avbairies have the birds go deep inside when ppl come around.Our 'display' /holdingf avaires are only 1.5 m deep, and the length is where the size comes in.....they are only 2m heigh.... a bit higher would have been better in retipect, but not much heighter because makes birds harder to catch... being narrow also makes easier to hang a curtain, then even smaller area to catch them, and divides the flock, easier still.

Quote:
The breeding aviary is 7mtrs wide, 3mtrs tall and 3.6mtrs deep. Cut into 3 runs but the kaks in there are yet to breed.

Our breeding avairies are 10+m long,divided into 1.2m wide flights 2.4 m deep, and 2m high.....each flight is sort of a screw together kitset, so can add new flights to each end as required.....has rear doors to 2 flights, and internal doors between flights...
That way we can also open up several flights , throw a flock in, let them sort best partners, then divide off as required ....
The smaller flights still has good room to clean floors, maintance without tripping over water troughs etc, and easy quick capture of chicks without stress

Generally with large avairies flights, where capture of birds is diffucult because of the huge space.height, there is a 'feeding cage' inside the flight where seed / water / all food is put....If one needs to capture birds, a trip is set that when the feed, they get trapped...and hopefully u have the bird(s) u want...
lot of work having to go into avairies to feed birds each day, maintance, capture is stressful for birds and you, and hit n miss time consuming.
Keeping birds and enjoying over long periods of time is eliminating the amount of time in maintance, feeding , cleaning so doesnt become a chore.

I only have to go into flights between every 10 to 14 days... to clean water trays....18 to 21 days to replace seed..and check nesting boxes at these times.
Have automativc watering into water trays over buckets with big holes in the bases , set into the ground as soak aways.
Veggies and meats feed 2x a day with cheap home made flip feeders....there are pics thread somewhere here.
Fruit is pushed thru the mesh.
Chop, leg of lamb roast type bones are thrown into the larger holding flights thru the door, as are left over cooked veggies off our plates/ still in suacepan....like hens really.

Basically "I work very hard at being lazy"
e.g it is easier to spend a Sunday afternoon cutting a strip out of the concret driveway, laying under ground (about 4")1/2" elcheapo irrigation , from a meter on the outside house tap, to each flight/water trough... than manually replensh water every day, for a decade or so.

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jamie
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:41 pm    Post subject: Oh wise one :)

Thanks so much for the advice Steptoe,

I have never fed bones to my birds, so forgive me for what is probably a bone headed question, how do you get them to eat them? anything special or do they just start to munch away?

also your auto watering. I have it really easy. I have an irrigation line along the front of the breeding aviaries. do you have any pics on the site of how to set it up. Is it simply into a drinker then overflow to wash it out?

Final question, i see you refer to your kings a lot. Are you talking about the king parrots we have here in Australia? Red/green Cock and Green hen. Only asking as I have 2 breeding pairs of them in with my Kaks. i find they get along famously bt since I have moved house, even though the same birds in the new aviary, the kings are not interested in breeding. Any thoughts?

Cheers

Jamie
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:39 am    Post subject:

Feeding bones....
A good solid chopping board, a good cliever. chop smash every thing up.
Chicken I chop down to 1/2 peas size
Big bones, chops just open up so can get at the marrow.
Since the children left home we do not produce enough left over meat bones from our cooking to supply the needs of our birds.To get around this I now buy bags of chicken carcass from the local butcher...$5 about 6 or 7 cacasses.
Freeze separate, easier to break apart later, a frozen carcass nuked (microwaved) for 12 min then chomp away with the cleaver....that plus out left overs 1 carcass lasted about 5 days.

Watering, yes 1/2" line runs across the the bottom of the avaries, the 5mm capilar tube plugs in, up to one of the hard plastic tubes that normaly have a sprinkler head or dripper on...this pionts in thru the mesh at the water trough, and a shut off tap just before it. The tube is heal in place with a couple staples. The tap enables flow adjustment to equalise flow between flights... and turn off if that flight is not in use.
under the troughs is a bucket with holes in the ground as a soak hole to take the over flow... and makes cleaning troughs easy.
Approx once a week , tip out most of the water in the trough into the bucket underneath....using a household heralth brush (those plastic brush and shovel sets) quick brush around , then swill out into the bucket. When all trays done, turn on the water at the meter and refill,, reset the meter

EWe have the meter come on around day break...thats fresh water for the day, and atime that we are not going to have a shower , do the washing etc. Wink

Quote:
Are you talking about the king parrots we have here in Australia?

yes...
We have never breed our king with other birds in the same flight, except quail... our breeding pare are tame enough to jump on ones hand most of the time.
Took a long time to get our kings and crimsons (ousin species) to breed...eventually taking the top off the nesting box so just a hole going down to a boot, plus gum shavings from the chainsaw for nesting material...also throwing a couple small branches/ leaves of gum tree into the flight seems to 'kick' them ff to breed each year....we get between 2 and 3 batches out of them each yr.
We moved the kings to a new avairy /flight around 3 months ago... same nesting box in the same cnr facing the same way.....moved the brach perchs to... but the flight is smaller now....She is currently sitting on 4 of her eggs and 2 crimson eggs....expecting a total of 3 to 4 chicks

For a large house parrot, kings are my 1st choice... dont scream like a sulphur crested, are not chewers like cocatoos (hence 2"x2" wooden frame and ply wall avaries all that is need) and have a excellent nature. We have NEVER cut flight feathers on a bird.
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