Are those flowers out of your garden? I am looking for ideas to give to my birds, but I am very wary of what to give them that will not harm them.
I live in the UK and my birds get lots of fresh fruit and veg but I want to give them something new. Your birds obviously had a lovely time dismantling those bouquets and I#d like to do something similar for mine
the "flowers" schown are.
chickweed
lavender
marygold /Tages tenuifolia, T filifolia, Calenduls)
Blackberry - everything from the flower to ripe fruits (our blackberryplant has no thorns)
flachs - everything from the flower to ripe fruits
oregano
thyme
yarrow
roman camomile
salat
dill
wild grases (Echichonola crus-galli)
if you want to whatch out for more, please visit my homepage.
Sorry the area of the feedings is not translated yet, but the buttons are. So you can see the english name and on the page the botanical name too.
And there are nice pictures to look on.
the listing is not complete, because we only want to write things, we tried for our own.
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:51 am Post subject: FLOWERS CAN BE TOXIC/LETHAL
Be carefull with flower buds as they can be very toxic, even lethal. I would say up to 50% of the flowers I have in and outside
are toxic to some degree. For instance my Oleander tree`s flower can stop the heart of a full grown man. Poinsetias are in the poppy family and are toxic as well. My bird was pulling apart my Azealea buds, turn out they are toxic as well. Time release fertilezer is also hazardous to animals. Cedar and other lumber species can be toxic too. Natural does not mean safe. Arsenic is as natural as dirt itself, but deadly as all get out. Also be very carefull with wild mushrooms, infact don`t ever feed an animal these unless you are positive it is safe.
Everything is toxic at a high enough dose. Water toxicity (overdose on water)can kill a man just the same as a bullet. Yes even apple seeds if taken in large amounts can kill a human, as they have trace amounts of arsenic in them. My friends dog ate some mushrooms in thier back yard recently and the dog almost died. If a few mushrooms almost killed a 120lb Lab imagine what would happen t. a 3 ounce Kakariki. When I was 5 my poodle got into a poinsettia plant, we are not sure if he ingested any, however the vet was concerned enough to keep him overnight to observe him.
I know this is an old post however people need to be aware, I research anything before I introduce it to my bird, because he will eat anything you give him and it is my job to make sure it is safe. Curly Willow branches are a nice addition to a cage and it gives them safe branches to tear apart, and to ant with. They look nice, last a long time and they are safe.
There are some old posts on an old experiment we did with pionous plants...along the lines , if acaptive bird was in the wild would it get piosoned...
So we dropped a lot of piosius plant in a flight...
The birds would not touch or go near the plants, and they where left in there for a good week.
Something that may have bearing thu, our birds get a full varired fresh natural diet 2x a day...so plants are not a 'toy' and they dont have a need to try out everything in sight.
And another thing to consider, just because a plant is pionious to a certain species or type of animal, it doesnt mean its pionous to everything... very much the opposite in many cases....
A exteme example is tutu.. pionious to cattle, and eurpeans, and can be fatal, but not to the indigineous people...and poroporo, (solaruim deadly nightshade family) to certian birds its required for reproduction.
Apple , pear seeds have arsenic, in small quanties...arsenic is also required in trace quanties for good health, and apple and pears seeds have just enough to meet this requirement...
As to hoeing into a handfull of apple seeds, very unlikely, very bad texture and taste... let alone easy sourcing that many..
Even willow in excess has potentual to be toxic...chewing on bark excessivily has chemicals that thin the blood , low blood pressure and resulting issues....in small quanties it can be good for heart function
A full constant and varied diet is essentual...
And exteme case .. again an old post.. where one of our birds got into rat pioson blocks, big time...and we did not know for quite a while...
Fully expected a deads bird in a few days, as did the vet...adimed Vit k1, be it way to late...the bird didnt even get the slightlest bit sick...not relising till later, our 'natural' consistant and varied diet has good quanties of Vit K.
With the levels from diet plus the increased dosage over the next few days, nps. _________________ My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
studies show flowers are a signifiacally üart of natural diet of kakariki. Nectar, on the other side is a very nutritious part of a balanced diet of thse birds.
Shure - we - mankind- should know what we can eat, and so you should be able to choose those diets / flowers for your birds that encrease the health of your pets - thats the way it should go, isn't it?
The manifold your diets are, the graeter the bennefit for your kakariki will be. There is no need to be in fear of poison plants, but there is a much greater need to learn about the other side!
Secondary active agents of plants will prevent individuals from starving, from infecting with cancer, etc. (Not only birds!)
One example.
View years ago, i visited Ulva-island in the south of NZ. And where, where did i found the kakariki? - In the trees high above the sence of humans - and the flowers of the southern beach fallen to the ground lead us the way to the view to the wild kakariki.
Yes there are poison things and there are healthy things - everywhere, and sometimes there is only a small bolder between. BUT to learn about it, should be the ideal way, i think - or isn't it?
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:47 am Post subject: Better Safe Than Sorry
My theory is better safe than sorry. Cattle and other large herbivors can not be compared as they have multiple stomachs that are not designed to eat many things. Cows don't eat much protien if any however the have the ablity to convert carbs to protien. Infact green alfalfa can bloat and kill a cow while it would just give us minor indigestion. Dogs natural diet has virtually no vitamen c in it, but they don't need supplements because they actually produce it themselves. They are pure carniviores contrary o popular belief that they should be fed vegtables, and the production of lacking minerals supports that. Inuit can survive off whale blubber where a white man can not digest it the same and we would eventually die on that diet alone. Arsenic is part of many foods as a contaminate, like mercury in fish. The seed of an apple contains arsenic as a defense mech, as they require birds to spread seeds not eat all of them otherwise that plant won't achieve its ultimate goal of propagation
My cat ate rat poison and was just fine, we took him to the vet every day for a shot of vitiman k for a month at ten dollars a pop,. Just cause he livd doesn't mean we are ok with him doing it again.
Kaks are somewhat omnivorous creatures, much like us, so my theory is if I would't eat it why should they. Everthing I feed him, kiwi apple lettuce, grains, peppers, chicken bones etc are all things I eat. Nature warns predators with bright colors, poison arrow frods, many tropical fish, and yes plants posses brightly colored appearance as a warning. If a certain plant or bud is not eaten by local wildlife, it is because they know better.
. Birds spread seed in there poop, and that is how nature works, mind you if they eat all the seeds from a particlar plant and digest 95% of the seeds, that plant has less of a chance of propagating itself proflicaly, limiting plant expansion.
. They are not lab rats to be experimented with.My bird ate my azealeas, they are somewhat toxic, not necessarly lethal, not sure if he ingested any. Simple solution, keep him away from the plant. Wild species of flower are very different from thier cousins in nature. Domestic plants are far removed from thier natural cousins. They are hybrids choosen for appearance and fragrants. I hve a white oleander that WILL kill a human much less a bird, but it smells great . My sarcoca confusa is very toxic to birds it even said so on the tag when I purchased it, but the wild birds won't touch the berries, actually one bird plucked one opened it and left it uneaten, they are black and forbidding looking. It knew better, but my bird doesn't for the most part. Many winter berries and blooms are toxic, otherwise they would not survive during a period when food is scarce. I also have a lemon tree inside that he can't go near because the thorns of the lemon tree are 1-2'' long and sharp as hell. They could easily puncture a vital organ of a small bird. That is exactly what the plant is desighned for, keep the predators at bay by being armored.
My bird will get him self into trouble every chance he gets, it is my job to keep him safe.
I didn't know willow was potentialy toxic, as it is promoted as not being so. Good to know, what kind of wood is good for a kaks cage. Also could it be possible that my bird doesn't understand he can fly.
I live in British Columbia and the fauna and flora are very different than new zealand. The blossoms and necter they feed on could be typicaly unique to tha enviroment. I forgot to mention the same plant that my kak tried to eat was untouched outside all summer. No other bird found it intersting either because there is no nutritional value, or they know it is toxic. Would a wild Kak encounter a non domestic azealea in New Zealand, not sure but not likely, as many domesticated species of flowers descendants of asia, or india.
Blueberries, kale, pomagranite and acia are full of antioxidents, as well as many other nutrients. We know this, however how do you know the flowers your bird is eating is provoiding any nutritional benifit at all. It is a toy to a domestic bird. The necter of flowers is generally not toxic while the petals and leaves can be. Last time checked kaks are not hummingbirds. They can get along just fine without necter, if they even consume it in the wild anyway,as hummingbirds are necture specialists, they dont`t even disturb the flower because they can hover. And it wouldn`t be in there best intrest to destroy thier food source by disecting the flower. Kaks like the seeds in the flowers, as many flowers have them in the bloom. They have to tear the petals away to find the seeds, thats why they do it. Then you will say well he shreads paper too, but that behavior is the same as a dog chasing a ball. A dog chases a ball because it has a prey drive. That is the domestic version of hunting instincts in a dog. The bird shreads things because in nature it is either to collect material for nesting, or they are honing thier wild instinct to search and dig as kaks do burrow in the wild I am told. And they probably turn soil up to find seed,nuts or insects.
I through millet seed in my garden everyday to atrract birds to ferttilize my garden, they have never touched any of my plants other than the elderberry, and thats the the deer not the birds. Mind you hummingbirds feed on my oleander all summer, but just the necter. Virtually all flower species have been imported to the americas, sufficed to say many domestic species in NZ are imported as well. And I am even willing to venture a guess that non native invasive species have wiped out native species in NZ. Happens everywhere where man settles.
So what the hell is there NATURAL DIET anyway. Or does the depletion of the species corralate with forighn invaders like white man that bring forieghn species with them. Loss of habitat also means loss of native species. I give my bird pomagranite, and I am pretty sure they hail from south america, so their diet is not very reminiscent of their original enviroment. They are domestic animals, you can`t compare a wolf to a dog because we created all domestic breeds, one has grown along side us, the other was created by nature. I don`t encourage my dog to hunt elk or deer, infact she couldn`t do it. Most domestic dogs will never eat raw meat, infact raw meat can make domestic breeds sick, and even potentially dangerous after they taste blood.
Africans seldom get melonma, because they have been exposed to enviroment where benovolent mutations have wiped ou the weaker stock that did, infact the ones that do get it normally have some white genetics somewhere in their history.They where exposed to the sun alot more than someone who lived in scandanavia or even england and adapted as a result. Being pale makes us prone to cancer due to sun exposure, whe don`t posses certain tannins that african folk do.But white men don`t get sickle cell anemia, it is predominanty an african male affliction. We are both people but different enviroments created distinct variations. You put a white man in africa he can adopt the culture and the diet, but he can still get skin cancer, you put an African in the Americas he can become very american over time , but his grandson will still be suceptable to sickle cell anemia. But they both have to consume what is available to them, no matter how different or they will die.
Animals are no different in the respect, what makes them strong in one enviroment would make them week in another. You put a polar bear in the tropics and it will likely not survive, infact it would probably die from overheating. Wolverines need cold weather and high alpine enviroment even in the summer, where there cousins the badger and other weasals can survive almost anywhere. Even africa as the honey badger, russia has the sable mink etc.. Difference being that one is a specialist, and the other is are oppertunists. Opportunist typicaly do better as they or far more adaptive. Specialist tend to die off along with thier enviroment or primary prey species. Man is actually the specialists main enemy.
The fact that kaks are almost extinct suggests to me they are specialist, that where not able to adapt to mans presence. Many species do well in urban enviroments and they are all opportunists like racoons, crows, coyotes. The one thing they have in common is the abbility to adapt to unknown enviroments, and the abblity to eat a wide variety foods that leave them less suceptable to starvation. They actually thrive in urban enviroments as do blue jays, ravens, and multiple other species of birds mammals and reptiles.
Intresting side note, my bird loves kiwi more than any other fruit. Both where imported to Canada at some point. Is that a coincidence, probably not as he prefers what his gentetics not his current enviroment tell him. . Animals did not have lots of available current resources prior to whiteman. The honey bee was imported to the americas, even though most of us just think they have always been there. There where pollinators prior, but no honey bees. Mosquitos where tranferred all over the world inadvertantly as well a the norwegian rat, and lots of game species from the old world. This some gave native species a new food source and created local specialists, some species benifited while other suffered and died, forced natural selection.
Iguess what I am trying to say, understanding the behavior of your bird and its relationship to it`s enviroment, can be much more complicated than saying`` Well this is how they behave in the wild`` As we are dealing with domestic birds, with wild tendancies, not the other way around. Kaks in the grande scheme of things have not been domesticated that long suggesting that they may retain more wild tendancies. However each generation becaomes less wild as they loose more wild traits. It took 10 -20000 years to domescate the current dog. Lets put it this way your pet would not likely survive in the wild, not to say it wouldn`t just the odds are against them, just like a wild species will not do well in captivity when plucked from the wild mid life.
Differnt species are easily comparable in the sense that mammals and birds are both generally terrritorial, and they both desire the same thing, sustanance to procreate. Eating and sleeping are a means to an end. The difference being is how they go about solving their envirometal dilemas to attain a healthy enviroment to spread thier genes. At the end of the day all that matters is that you live to create the next generation. The drive is the same it is the means that differ, and sometimes not by much.
Example my dwarf hamster and my kak are both prey species in the wild, and they both are burrowers that eat almost exactly the same diet of nuts vegitation, and small insects. Both are tolerant of being in groups(not typical of other hamsters). Both are cold tolerant, while one comes from siberia and the other from new zealand. Both are prolific breeders and territorial. They are both curious as scavengers must be.The ony real differences are one has fur one has feathers, and one can fly or burrow to safety, and one is entirely nocturnal thats burrows and hides during the day for safety.
My theory is better a lived live than a to save...
but you're right, a domnestic kak will eat every green ond coulerful thing you will feed him. But it's the job of his owner to know what is good for him. And the diet should be as varied as possible.
Please think this kind of tought: A wild bird will spend more than 80% of his day with eating and surching for eatable things. What is his sence of life in capture with only five types of food?
I think there is a graet database of food for birds in the net, and you will find lots of vegies you can feed your birds, even coulerfull flowers. Maybe you will try for yourself to decorate your own sallad with those flowers.
I know about the discribed problem and therefore every used plant is named.
And there is a dose-effect relationship for poison things. Lots of things you need to eat in low dosis will halm you in graeter amounts and this differs from species to species.
I'm sorry about my bad english but here is a link to my german homepage with things you can feed, i'm sure lots of things grow in the northern northamerica too. Not everything is translatet yet, but the listing is in english.
http://kakariki-paradise.de/english/HTML/ERNAEHRUNG.HTM
And if you ask Gee for a listing, you will get a large listing of plants eatable for kaks.
I also want to mention that I agree giving your bird a variety of foods, however know what you are giving them before you give it to them. I have plants in my garden that are lethal, and I wouldn't want someone to give thier birds poison to play with. Like I said my oleander would make a great toy, if you are looking to kill your bird. The flower is fine but the sap is toxic. Azalea was known to kill roman soldiers that ate the honey so the nectre is toxic, and rhodendruns are also very toxic. Apparently even being around the fumes a burning oleander is dangerous. Yes in small doses birds can be tolerant, but if you feed this poison regularily the toxicity level can rise to a lethal level by the simple process of accumulating more than the body can dispell. Lets put it this way our liver is about ten times the size of a Kak bird, so thier liver is the size of a pea probably. If it can kill a human it can kill a bird although I am sure there are some exceptions to the rule. Same could be said if it kills a horse it definately will kill a human, thats why we use horses to create anti-venom and other vaccinations. Generally the bigger you are the more likely you are to survive toxins or venoms, and Kaks are tiny.
These plants are common all over the world. So all I am saying is be carefull, even the fertilzer we use to feed the plants can be harmfull. All poisons are derivitives of nature, and they are everywhere, from stones,to metals to lumber and gasses. I love working with red cedar, however the oils make you itchy, they make your eyes burn and your lungs hurt. It goes away after a while. If I used it everyday without a respirator my chances of getting cancer are much higher, but every now and then is fine. If you put a hamster in a cage with cedar chips, the oils after being urinated on can kill that hamster if ventilation is poor and if the animal is kept in the enviroment for a long time.Couple hours won't hurt.. Western RedcCedar doesn't rot nor has any pest problems because it contains natural pesticides, and preservitives that are toxic.. Smells awesome, but to pest that pungent smell is a warning of sorts.
I have a german belt buckle from ww1 that my great grandpa traded for some tabocco with a german soldier that says Gott min uns and I have always wanted to say it to someone.
I live in British Columbia and the fauna and flora are very different than new zealand. The blossoms and necter they feed on could be typicaly unique to tha enviroment. I forgot to mention the same plant that my kak tried to eat was untouched outside all summer. No other bird found it intersting either because there is no nutritional value, or they know it is toxic. Would a wild Kak encounter a non domestic azealea in New Zealand, not sure but not likely, as many domesticated species of flowers descendants of asia, or india.
Frankly, what a load of rubbish....assumptions.
What do u think NZ hasnt issues with introduced plants/ animal to its ecology, that we dont have plants introduced from all around the world in our gardens... and in the wild???
Every plant u have mentioned in ALL your posts, is common in NZ...we even have pionios plant in our gardens/ enviroment that are baned in many countries.
Quote:
The fact that kaks are almost extinct suggests to me they are specialist, that where not able to adapt to mans presence. Many species do well in urban enviroments and they are all opportunists like racoons, crows, coyotes.
Another load of crap, assumptions.. "sugests to me" somes it up
Man and his enviroment is not the issue.....covered many times in these forums....extermination as a pest to early settler crops, then interoduction of mammels, in the form of stoats, ferrits, rats, mice... that have no preditors above them to keep them in check... a already decimated population has little chance.. This is the issue with out uniquely evolved NZ native replitles, birds, insects... across the board.
It takes very little "research" even the most suspect of google research to find this out.
You admit u have very little experiance in kakariki, non in NZ conservation, let alone have a clue about our unique ecology on this earth.
Your "research" ...for a self admitted "scientist" is extremely lacking, so much so I find such a claim totally unrealistic, and your conclusions way off reality. _________________ My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
Last edited by Steptoe on Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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