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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - Female has stopped flying
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Female has stopped flying

 
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Wendelina
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:08 am    Post subject: Female has stopped flying

Hi all,

I have just joined as everytime I Google for information on Karakiki's your site has always given the best, clearest and easiest to follow advice (this was via forums). Thank you!

I have a male and female who were bought as a pair just after they had finished weaning(?) the one survivor of their last clutch. (I believe this was their first). This was nearly 2 weeks ago.

They are going through the mating ritual, he is feeding her, she is in and out of the nest box, they are mating etc. They have 2 nest boxes as I have learnt that she will possibly lay 2 clutches.

Everything has been going well, they settled nicely, eat, drink, bath etc , however the female has stopped flying (she has been up until today), she climbs everywhere around the cage, in every other way she seems fine, I have checked for signs of egg binding as described in your forum and she is showing none of these.

Can anyone offer a reason why she should be doing this? The only thing I can think off is that she is near laying but trying to think sbout how they act 'in the wild' this doesn't seem something they would do.

I have kept a variety of birds over the years but this is my first experience of Kakariki's and I have never had a breeding pair of any type of bird before.

BTW thanks for the thread on stopping them breeding!

Any help and advice would be gratefully received.

Thanks

Wendelina
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:09 am    Post subject:

Quote:
They have 2 nest boxes as I have learnt that she will possibly lay 2 clutches

Sort of..females lays and hatches 1st batch, as the adult feathers emerge she then lays and incubates in the 2nd box, while themale raises the 1st batch and feeds her.
The 1st batch leave the nest, male continues to wean for several weeks, you clean out the nesting box.
By this time the 2nd batch are starting to get adult feathers, hen move back to the 1st clean box....and keeps going on.

We have 3 pair been doing this for over 4yrs, non stop, each pair producing over 140 healthy adults.
Ihave now stopped 1 pair....once they get to about 125, 130 healty adults fertiity drops from around 80% healty adults to eggs down to about 2 or 3 per 8 eggs....25%

Quote:
however the female has stopped flying (she has been up until today), she climbs everywhere around the cage, in every other way she seems fine......The only thing I can think off is that she is near laying but trying to think sbout how they act 'in the wild' this doesn't seem something they would do.

....your thought prodess thinking , what what they do in the wild is correct BUT Do not compare NZ wildlife with that of the rest of the world.
NZ had no mammals, therefore our ecology/balace of nature is very unique..... many of our insects evolved in a manner that their behavour is more like a mouse, birds often behave more like small mammels...ie kiwi behavour and even its reproduction biology and even its feathers are almost mammal like.

Yes most of our hens tend to slow down as they get to laying time, spending lot of time in the nesting box, thu no flying is unusual...
On the other had we breed in avairies and flight rather than cages...far greater distance and height from one place to another

Best advice, unless something obvious becomes apparant is consistant good diet...very very important, and since their 1st batch, leave them alone.

Quote:
I have just joined as everytime I Google for information on Karakiki's your site has always given the best, clearest and easiest to follow advice (this was via forums). Thank you!


Feed back like this is very nice to hear...we try to keep things in a lay persons perspective.
Cheers
Steps

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Wendelina
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:54 am    Post subject:

Hi Steps,

Thank you for your reply and advice, especially about the nest boxes.

The information regarding the breeding and non flying of 'Joy' is very helpful and on your advice, I will keep an eye on her and if all else is fine will leave them 'to it'

Thanks again! Applause

Wendelina
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Wendelina
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:06 am    Post subject:

Hi,

Just to say that I lost my female today.

I found her on the bottom of the cage with blood coming out of her beak (already dead) looking at the cage it looks like she had coughed or flicked blood before landing on the bottom of the cage.

I have no idea why she died, and I am really worried about her mate as he is calling for her constantly. He has drawn his chest feathers right in as if he is going to sit on eggs.

He spent most of his time feeding her and thinking back she hardly ate anything herself only what he fed her, she did drink okay though. (I thought that this was part of their ritual - was I wrong?

Not to sound unfeeling here but for his sake I am thinking about getting him another mate, however I have heard that in captivity they bond for life, any advice on getting another one (when how to introduce etc) will be gratefully received - I am gutted that this beautiful little girl died in my care and really feel for her lone mate.

Wendlina
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:26 am    Post subject:

Given the time frame, I think your bird is very likely to have had something wrong before u got her.
Internal bleeding is very unusual... possibly lungs or something like that.
you should discuss this with your breeder.
No capitive kakariki do not pair for life.

Clean cage etc down, mist spray with 50/50 vinegar, and apple cider vinegar in the veggies on a regular basis... maintance.
Worm, invermectin, on the back of the neck and do the same when get new birds.

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Wendelina
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:55 am    Post subject:

Hi Steps,

Thank you for the information and advice I will be definitely talking to the people I got her off of tomorrow.

It is reassuring that they do not pair for life, because that means that hopefully he will get over her.

Can you please clarify Invermectin? Should I use ' Anti-parasite Spot On '?

They do a wormer too, so I think both would be a good idea would you agree? (sorry so many stupid questions but these birds are so different to others I have had and I want to get it right for their sake).

I am a responsible pet owner and wish to be the same for these beautiful birds that have recently captured my heart.

Wendelina
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:46 pm    Post subject:

on the left is a "quick Search" block
Invermectin is a wormer, mites
But like all these drugs, they do not cover the full spectum of parasits...
As to " Spot on" read the label of ingrediants.
Invermectin in many countries is a prescription drug, only able to be supplied from a Vet....once again members from different parts of the world have discussed how to source...In NZ the local vet who we are familar with prescibes about 10 mls that when kept in a dark container under refridgeration lasts a very long time...
We only have to use on new birds in isloation.
We do check (maintance) for worms ( again the search function) how to with a elcheapo childs microscope, and find regular apple cider vinegar and mist spray of vinegar has kept our outdoor avairies and birds free of mites and worms for many yrs now.

Quote:
I am a responsible pet owner...

Yep we know that, irreponasble people dont ask , learn , find out.....

Cheers
Steps

PS the bold words put in the Quick Seach block on the left.

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Wendelina
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 7:27 am    Post subject: New female

Hi,

Just an update, I went back to where I bought my first female from and they agreed with your thought on what was wrong with her.

They gave me a replacement female, (she had been in the aviary with the original pair), this one is a yellow (are the yellows known as lutino the same as budgies?)

Bless her she a partially bald and they were not sure if this was due to another male being a bit aggressive or whether she did it to herself, they did say the yellows tend to pluck; is this true?

Anyway they are in together and he is head bobbing, dancing etc, she just sits and watches him as if he is mad Laughing

They seem to be settling and maybe one day they will mate although to be honest as long as they are happy I'm not bothered if they dont.

I have found that they love raw carrot and meal worms, and occasionally cold dry toast, which she insists on dunking in their water bowl much to his disgust as he likes to eat it crispy! Rolling Eyes

When I work out how to do it I'll upload some pics.

Wendelina.
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 10:11 am    Post subject:

kakariki od any parrot species is the leat likely to pluck
Once again new bird dose for worms mites etc the invermetin apple cider vinegar and vinegar.

If they breed u must consider the holding flights for off spring etc etc.

Quote:
I have found that they love raw carrot and meal worms,

These ARE NOT TREATS they are part of a regular varied and balanced diet.
There is a thread "what do you feed...."

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Wendelina
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 11:41 am    Post subject:

Thanks for your quick response, and for pointing me to the other thread, definitely a must read for me!

She was dosed for mites worms etc when I picked her up so she is covered for a while. They used a spray invermetin which seems ideal for my birds as they are not hand tamed yet.

So there is a good chance that the other male was a bit aggressive and that is why she has feathers missing? Any idea how long it should take before they start to grow back? Simply because they if they do not then I need to look into other possible reasons.

Thanks again for your help and advice! Applause
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject:

The
Quote:
y used a spray invermetin which seems ideal for my birds as they are not hand tamed yet.


Invermectin is a symatic chemical, get absobed thru the shin into the blod stream...basically a insectide in the blood stream that kills and mite that may bite the bird/animal.....and the same for worms feeding internally.
Basically the same sort of thing like orthine we spray on roses

But birds, dogs, sheep etc have feather hence why we, farmers dsoes by a couple drops onm the back of the neck to be absorbed, as it is deigned to be, thru the skin.....NOT orialy when prune feathers..doesnt work and can pioson the bird/animal...

Also when dosing mites /worms etc, it is essentual to re dose at least a second time 10 to 12 days later....this hits any mites worms that have hatched out after incubation, prevent reinfestation and also since get a good kill, dna resistance buld up my the mites worms etc.
This resistance in everything from anti biotics, worming , vermin poisons is now a huge world wide issue cause by irreponsable vets doctor parent not follwing up their and children dosages etc.

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Wendelina
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:57 pm    Post subject:

Hi,

I thought I would update on Toy and Mellow.

They have learnt to go back in their avairy after a flight and are gradually coming closer and closer to us while they are out.

They have settled in very well together and to my delight have started what looks like the mating 'dance'.

I very nearly bought a pair of beautiful mottled pied's but was waiting for my husband to extend the avairy, however now Toy and Mellow have possibly decided that they are going to mate, I think the best plan is to leave them and not introduce anymore birds at the moment.

When we lost Joy (Toys first mate), I was gutted and blamed myself, as these were our first Kakariki's however once Steptoe suggested a possible cause which was affirmed by the people we bought her from.

I decided to persevere and buy Toy a new 'friend'. This proved to be the right move for him and since Mellow has become part of the family I can now see just how unatural Joy's behaviour was. Toy and Mellow are a delight to have in our family and they entertain us for hours!

Thanks again Steps! You are a real champion for and of Kakariki!

Wendelina
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:45 am    Post subject:

Quote:
I think the best plan is to leave them and not introduce anymore birds at the moment.

Would u take friends on your honey moon Wink

I still have concern as to the quailty of the birds you are sourcing

Quote:
who were bought as a pair just after they had finished weaning(?) the one survivor of their last clutch

And troubles with the other bird...and descriptions
It sounds very strongly of a breeder who has been in bredding without introduicing new blood every couple generations....this results in generic defects in the blood line.....also when this happens a responsable breeder with then go right back thru his blodling stock, and cull the defect line right out...drastic but thats how it is also done in nature.
This is of serious concern...this is how gentic issues have arised with different bloods lines in other domesticated species....ie some dog species have issues with hips and backlegs, others have heart or kidney issues..some with some cat blood lines and bird blood lines.

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Wendelina
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject:

Hi Steps,

'Would u take friends on your honey moon' (not sure how to use quote)

I gather that you agree with my decision to hold off buying another pair! Laughing

The Kakariki's come from different breeders to the place I buy them from and they did say that they would let that particular breeder know about Joy, and would not buy from them again until they were sure that he had looked into what went on. (I can only hope that they stick by this!)

Mellow did not come from the same breeder although she was in the same aviary with Toy and Joy when I bought them, however as Joy seemed fine there I do not think that they were aware of the problem with her.

I and other members of my family have bought a wide range of birds, lizards and snakes from the same place as have friends. We also buy a lot of our food from them all with no issues or problems healthwise or otherwise so I do not think the problem lies with them, in fact their response to Joys death and their actions regarding her breeder reassures me.

I too am concerned regarding this breeder and I am checking with them what he is/has done. I will tell them that it sounds to you that he/she needs to introduce new bloodlines just in case this is just a person like me whose birds have bred rather than a 'proper' breeder.

I hope all this makes sense?
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Hi Steps,

'Would u take friends on your honey moon' (not sure how to use quote)

I gather that you agree with my decision to hold off buying another pair!


Yeah..leave then to their 'honeymoon'

Quote:
needs to introduce new bloodlines just in case this is just a person like me whose birds have bred rather than a 'proper' breeder.

It goes a lot further than then just introducing new blood lines, but culling generations back to eliminate the bad gene altogether from the stock.

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