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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - My new pair - confirming mutations
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My new pair - confirming mutations

 
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sjames86
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:56 am    Post subject: My new pair - confirming mutations

I have just become the proud owner of a new pair of Kakarikis - my first time owning Kaks and I am looking forward to working with them.

Just want to get confirmation on the colour mutation of them both.

Male i believe is normal green pied.

Female i believe is cinnamon pied.

Am I correct - if so what are they likely to produce together?

Thanks

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pabloc
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:42 pm    Post subject:

Hi!

you are correct about the mutations.
The offspring of this pair... probably all offspring will be pied (although it's possible you breed some "wildcolors"). Additionally the sons of this pair will be split cinnamon.

(depending if they are split to recessive pied or the male is split cinnamon, the results will change)

You can use gencalc.com to calculate the different possibilities.

Cheers /Pablo

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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:15 pm    Post subject:

Thats a nice looking wild
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pabloc
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:34 am    Post subject:

Steps,
definitely I must stop drinking milk... signlol
I don't know what I saw but obviously I didn't pay attention to the male because he doesn't seem to be pied.

In any case the breeding results will be the same:
part of the offspring will be pied, part of the offspring will be wildcolor
sons will be split cinnamon

thx for correcting Steps.

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sjames86
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:00 am    Post subject:

the male is pied - he has a yellow splodge on the back of his head and a couple of yellow splodges under his wings - it is very minimal pied though. I will see if i can get a better photo.

I paid double the amount for the cock than the hen but i thought he was worth it as he is a stunning bird :)
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:57 am    Post subject:

The yeoow on the back of the head, its in the feather /down underneath, they all have that....comments from early settlers etc often comment about the number of natural mutations in wild flocks...which d not exist in NZ any more.
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sjames86
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:22 am    Post subject:

really?
He has definate yellow feathers, in about 4 blobs down the back of his head and neck?
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pabloc
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:34 pm    Post subject:

James,

kakariki, even pure-wildcolor from NZ, have a yellow spot in the back of the head, it's visible when they are in the nest because the down is dark-grey, but in that spot it's white.
But in adults is not visible unless you move aroudn the feathers in that area. I don't know if there are any pics in the forum of this.

Some pied birds though, have obvious yellow spots in the neck and the back of the head, that's different. They are obviously visible without touching any feathers. Yellow spots in other parts of the body (and white toes/nails) are also signs of piedness.

Usually they are like "residual markings" of recessive pied genes, so to speak. So your bird is possibly split to recessive pied, or maybe simply dominant pied with very few markings.

Cheers/ Pablo

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Cattscapes
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:19 am    Post subject:

Hi Guys yes he is a pied. You can see the yellow on the back of his head and also on his rump. He also has pied feet. You will probably get yellows as well if your lucky.
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sjames86
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:12 am    Post subject:

here is a photo of his back.

I also noticed he has two white toenails on his one foot.

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sjames86
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:21 am    Post subject:

also notice the white wing feather - is this normal for 'green' kaks?

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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:20 am    Post subject:

Wilds often do have a white feather or part of a flight feather.
Very often what appears mutation is no more than a diet deficiency in the parents and/or while in the nest.
We have had several birds over the yrs to show slight mutation....breed in our early days of experimenting with diets and stuff
No matter what we could not repeat any signs from these birds or from the orginal parents...Althu orginaly thrilled that we may have a mutation gene in NZ and in our breeding lines, we had to conclude in the end it was not so.

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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:49 pm    Post subject:

Regardless...Pab sums it up here

Quote:
In any case the breeding results will be the same:
part of the offspring will be pied, part of the offspring will be wildcolor
sons will be split cinnamon


And the reason is back i 1800s when they where being infect exterminated (shotguns) The bird people of the day also reconised as compared to most other species the extremely high insidence of mutaions in the wild.
They also saw the potentual in the bird breeding communities and collection through out Europe And America..
More important there where rather entrprising gentlemen who saw an oportunity to make money...collect up the wounded birds that had mutations and a few wilds thrown in, get them to health and export them.

Which is why you guys off shore have such a high insidence of mutations, and the orginal wild stock here...I have seen one yellow, as to the mutation dont know and was a very old bird in captivity.

So the chances are be a wild or a tiny bit of pied...the results of the breeding arew very likely to be the same as pied.

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