Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:06 am Post subject: Pairings
Hi!
It's my first post in the forum. I'm a fellow breeder from Vigo, Spain, although currently living in Évora, Portugal. I've found this place around a year ago, but more or less all my doubts and basic knowledge were pretty well covered already by existing posts, so I didn't feel like registering.
Now time has come to go a step further into breeding kikes seriously, and before starting to buy I was reviewing all the information.
One of the things that I still miss are how should we pair different mutations, in order to get good offspring. I wonder about this since some days ago a fellow breeder, in a Spanish forum, suggested that lutino kikes should not be paired, because offspring is weaker.
I know this is true for cockatiels. Even with a more or less nice split father, lutino chicks get that ugly bald spot behind the crest. To get good lutinos, you need very good parents.
But... on kakarikis I never read anything related to this. I have a lutino pair myself, and although some chicks died at different ages in the first 2 breedings, I think it's more due to parent inexperience. In the second one (I don't count the 1st one, as I handfed the chicks from 3 weeks of age) they succesfully raised 3 chicks (out of 5 or 6, I'm not sure now), which in my opinion are good in size, feather and general shape. But of course... it's just the opinion of an inexperienced person.
I'd be grateful if you could give your opinion on this, as I'd rather do things better for next pairings.
Besides... I think we could create something like a summary of the pairings we have in our collections, and the possible offspring, or suggested pairings, as to have a small guide when we are looking for new birds.
I start myself with a humble lutino x lutino pair.
Interesting question. My experience with the Lutino is limited to split birds and there were never problems with inborn weakness. Some people say that is better to avoid pairing a red eye to a red eye. I have my doubts about it.
Assume you pair a Fallow to a Lutino. Both have red eyes. If the birds aren't split to something else then the results are normal offspring.
I've been looking for some answers in another (genettics) forum and found that small size in many of the recessive colour morphs is more related to levels of inbreeding required to establish the mutations in the first place.
So, I tend to believe that the story about Lutino x Lutino is a myth.
By the way, this summer I was in the south of Spain, somewhere between Torremolinos and Marbella. Is this far from Vigo?
Vigo is more or less in the opposite corner of the Iberic Penninsula, in the Atlantic coast. Portuguese border is around 20'min south-bound drive from there, for you to have an idea. Going to Torremolinos can easily take 12-14 hrs.
If you happen to go again on holidays to that area, I recommend you paying a visit to Bluemacaws. It's a "parrot farm", and they accept visits on certain days. You can check on their website.
And thank you very much for your opinion on lutino pairings!
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Pairings
pabloc wrote:
I have a lutino pair myself, and although some chicks died at different ages in the first 2 breedings, I think it's more due to parent inexperience. In the second one (I don't count the 1st one, as I handfed the chicks from 3 weeks of age) they succesfully raised 3 chicks (out of 5 or 6, I'm not sure now), which in my opinion are good in size, feather and general shape.
Regards / Pablo
Hai Pabloc,
I Know this fenome, mostly the chick that died have red eyes.
They will die in the first or second week.
I think it's genetic , the chicks who die have een white skin and legs which must be normal little pink.Also they grow not so good.
The other chicks have black or get after 3 weeks black eyes and grown normal.
well... to be honest I can't remeber right now if they were whiter that the others. I know for sure that 1 of them died due to being just born and the older brothers probably sit over him, and either he was injured or starved. The last one to born I think survived. The other ones... I don't know.
Of the 3 that I handfed, only 2 made it to weaning, and then 1 of them appeared one morning with dry blood in his beak. He died in the afternoon. Cause of death unknown, as the 2 vets I visited with the poor chick couldn't say anything reliable.
The handfed female is happily staying with my girlfriend. And the 3 young males from the second nestling are very nicely feathered and strong.
I'll have a better look and take pics of the next nestlings!
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