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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - Urgent: Need advice for a kakariki with a badly broken nail
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Urgent: Need advice for a kakariki with a badly broken nail

 
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marveymuse
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:32 pm    Post subject: Urgent: Need advice for a kakariki with a badly broken nail

I'm hoping someone here can help me/offer some advice. I realize that none of this substitutes for proper veterinary medical care, but any help anyone could offer would be great.

I've had my Kakariki for about 8 years now and recently she developed a very large abdominal tumor. I took her to the vet, but he said there is nothing that can be done for her since she is so tiny. He suggested putting her down, but all the methods he suggested seemed to be ones that would simply induce more suffering, and her quality of life does not seem that bad to me (yet) so I don't see the point in ending her "suffering" with even more suffering. Moreover, aside from not being able to balance properly and some heavy breathing, she is in relatively good spirits--she eats, comes out of her cage to play every now and then, etc. The problem is this: because of her large tumor she sometimes has trouble balancing on her perches and every now and then falls to the bottom (I've decreased the height of her perches so that the fall down isn't from such a great height). Anyway, last night I think she fell and hurt herself--she broke her nail. Her nail dislodged or detached from her toe/nail bed, and I noticed quite a bit of blood in her cage. This morning when I noticed it, I cleaned her up, and tried to clot the bleeding with cornstarch, which didn't work for long. I then used "Kwik Stop" which seems to have worked thus far. However, I believe the condition is quite painful for her. My questions are the following: Is there anything else I can do for her (especially to make her more comfortable)? Birds seem to need their nails to grasp things properly and so since one of hers is now gone, will it grow back? And if it can grow back, on average how long does this process take?
And finally, has anyone else had problems with tumors in Kakarikis? I am just wondering if this is a common health problem for them, as I haven't been able to find any information on the internet about this.

Any insights anyone on this board could provide would be great.
Thanks.
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:02 pm    Post subject:

The best thing to stop bleeding is a sliver nitrate stick...these can be obtained from the Vet or doctor....keep in a dark place.

A broken nail or even a seriously damaged toe, can be simply snipped off with a strong and sharp pair of scissors, the cauterised as above...Or put another way, amputate.

Do NOT (please excuse my 'french') Piss around when doing it ...I canot hold with 1/2 hearted attempts that cause any unnecessary dis comfort in animals.
Do it once, do it right and do it quick and firm...

No kakariki are not prone to tumours, no more sand maybe less than most other animals...

Im sry but, From you description, I would follow the advice of your vet.
To understand the "Quality of life" one must understand the utter frustration /discomfort, you kakariki experiences, compared to being able to free fly, climb, and generally run around.
At 8 yrs a kakariki maybe past top breeding age, slowed down a little, they are still a reasonable active bird at 10+yrs.

PLEASE, reconsider what your vet advises...
I see so many pets, dogs cats, whos life is extended, that would otherwise mercifully end in the wild, that owners use alsorts of excuses not to make the ultimate call.

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marveymuse
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:31 am    Post subject:

Steptoe wrote:
The best thing to stop bleeding is a sliver nitrate stick...these can be obtained from the Vet or doctor....keep in a dark place.

A broken nail or even a seriously damaged toe, can be simply snipped off with a strong and sharp pair of scissors, the cauterised as above...Or put another way, amputate.

Do NOT (please excuse my 'french') Piss around when doing it ...I canot hold with 1/2 hearted attempts that cause any unnecessary dis comfort in animals.
Do it once, do it right and do it quick and firm...

No kakariki are not prone to tumours, no more sand maybe less than most other animals...

Im sry but, From you description, I would follow the advice of your vet.
To understand the "Quality of life" one must understand the utter frustration /discomfort, you kakariki experiences, compared to being able to free fly, climb, and generally run around.
At 8 yrs a kakariki maybe past top breeding age, slowed down a little, they are still a reasonable active bird at 10+yrs.

PLEASE, reconsider what your vet advises...
I see so many pets, dogs cats, whos life is extended, that would otherwise mercifully end in the wild, that owners use alsorts of excuses not to make the ultimate call.


Hi,
Thanks for your reply. I do think what you've suggested is a little harsh for my bird. As soon as the vet is available (it is a long holiday weekend here), I will take her for a check up. I don't think her toe requires amputation as I was able to stop the bleeding with the Kwik Stop. And she seems to be doing much better today. Regarding her toe-nail I really only wanted to know if anyone thought it would grow back or not--i.e. in cases like this do nails grow back?

As for following the advice of my vet in putting her down--I want to make clear that yes, after the visit to the vet, I did consider all the options he suggested quite seriously. You note that in the wild her life might end mercifully, and that often owners "use all sorts of excuses not to make the ultimate call." In fact, I don't believe that I am making any excuses for her. I've had plenty of experience with Kakarikis and other birds to understand what a "bad" quality of life is. Knowing my bird, the way she is (and was even before her tumor), her quality of life is not as bad as perhaps you percieve it to be from what I wrote earlier (also written when I was distressed about her nail and initial bleeding). I understand that Euthanasia is a sensitive topic and there are varied opinions on it, so I won't get into a debate about this with you, but I just wanted to make clear that I did consider the options and if she worsens later on, will continue to consider doing what is best for her, and not what's best for me, as the owner.
Thanks again for your response and advice, I appreciate the time you took to write me.

Kindest regards.
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:25 am    Post subject:

Quote:
i.e. in cases like this do nails grow back?

Depend where they are damaged from...either way, I wouldnt worry about it. thu ig just haning, nip it off so as not to catch in anything else later.

Quote:
I do think what you've suggested is a little harsh for my bird.

Im not sugesting for your bird, more just giving some things to consider, not just you but others who are in similar situations..
I have seen some pets, who are treated with all good intentions, and the owners, due to being to close, just cant see what the poor animal is living with....
"due to being to close"
Sort of when 1 drives a car all the time, one doent notice it is getting out of tune.

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Kaka-riki
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:34 am    Post subject:

When the nail is "torn" from the end of the toe the only practical thing to do is cut the nail off. It will not regrow but Kakariki adapt quickly and the loss of a nail does not create any problems with perching or holding food.
The end of the toe will heal but from time to time you may notice the wound has re-opened if the bird knocks it. We have had several birds, both male and female that have lost nails and continued to breed and live healthy happy lives. BUT you should remove the nail as soon as possible to reduce the potential of infection as the toe will not heal properly while the nail is hanging.

We had a bird that developed a tumor on its neck area a few years ago. Our vet believed the tumor was the result of a rat bite but this could not be confirmed. Eventually the tumor spread and the bird was put down. It is always a tough call but I am a strong believer that indviduals know their birds better than anyone else and as such are the best judges at determing when a birds quality of life has reached the point that leaves no alternative other than having the bird put down. Good luck with your decisions now and in the future.
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marveymuse
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:56 pm    Post subject:

Kaka-riki wrote:
When the nail is "torn" from the end of the toe the only practical thing to do is cut the nail off. It will not regrow but Kakariki adapt quickly and the loss of a nail does not create any problems with perching or holding food.
The end of the toe will heal but from time to time you may notice the wound has re-opened if the bird knocks it. We have had several birds, both male and female that have lost nails and continued to breed and live healthy happy lives. BUT you should remove the nail as soon as possible to reduce the potential of infection as the toe will not heal properly while the nail is hanging.

We had a bird that developed a tumor on its neck area a few years ago. Our vet believed the tumor was the result of a rat bite but this could not be confirmed. Eventually the tumor spread and the bird was put down. It is always a tough call but I am a strong believer that indviduals know their birds better than anyone else and as such are the best judges at determing when a birds quality of life has reached the point that leaves no alternative other than having the bird put down. Good luck with your decisions now and in the future.


Hi, thank you so much for your response. It was helpful and reassuring, so I appreciate the time you took to write. She seems to be adjusting well and comes out and plays normally, so I do think she's okay now.

Thanks again. :)
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Looby
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:05 am    Post subject: about silver nitrate...

Dear steps,

Am i right that the above is what you meant, only recently i had an incident where my female had some how lost her nail and i was on the search for how to stop the bleeding whenever she knocked it and to prevent infection..I did eventually find a chemist that knew what i meant when i mentioned silver nitrate stick but the pharmacist was most concerned that silver has sent humans to hospital when placed too near the mouth for cuts and ingested..

did i misunderstand or what are your thoughts on this?

Kind regards
Lu
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:04 am    Post subject:

The odd times we have had to use the Silver nitrate to stop bleeding
Toes and when they have hit the mesh real hard cutting across the top of the break, we have had no problems
The Chemist is doing his job..we he gives out drugs, remidies he has to also tell ppl about possible side effects, issues etc.

Yes ppl have been effected, and personally I believe because of incorrect application... not reading instructions
You dont wipe the bud on...just press against the wound for a 2 or 3 seconds...it burns, cortorises the the wound... In a silimar way a small very hot soldering iron would..but far less painful.

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Looby
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:35 am    Post subject:

i kno , i understand this..but how wld you stop a bird from biting and tasting at it?..being it a one -off aplication i assume that there must be little silver in it to affect even a small bird?

I have also heard white pepper is good for slowing the bleed..is this also affective? Think
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:58 am    Post subject:

Quote:
i assume that there must be little silver in it to affect even a small bird?

Well we have never had an issue, and the local avairian vet, who also has extensive experiance in Sth Africa would not have orginally recommended if it was the case.
Applied quick and correct the amount of nitrate is little...next to nothing.

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Looby
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:04 pm    Post subject:

Thank you for the the re assurance,Steps! appreciate the feedback..hope it didnt sound like i had affended you

happy^
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:42 am    Post subject:

Quote:
hope it didnt sound like i had affended you

Look....I am a very undipolomatic, blunt person..I know so cause my wife says so...and so do my friends.
If anyone takes a personal shot at me or anyone else here, I come down like a ton of bricks on even the slightest hint.
On the other hand, myself and everyone here have their own ideas, standards, opinions...expressing a sharing these, even disagreeing,
(somewhere above someones says they think Im a bit harsh) these are honest, open opinions made with no malice.

I cant find the part where I may have got offended duno

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Looby
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:51 am    Post subject:

TERRIFIC!!! <v>
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