Welcome to Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Diet, Health, Aviaries and Conservation!
Ask Questions, Find Answers and DiscussionsKakariki Member Pics, Mutation/Species IdentificationInformation on Permits, Research Papers etcLinks to Other Sites and InformationYour A/C Details, Messages

     GT Modules
· Home
· Forums
· Email Webmaster
Email Webmaster for any problems with Registering, the site and General Enquires
·Link to Us, Details
Set to your default home page· Set Home page


       QuickSearch
Search Forums
for key Words
Advanced Search
 Search  Words

     NZ Conservation Projects


DoC / NZ Conservation Sites


Kiwi House and Native Bird Park
New Zealand Conservation Management Group
Royal Forest and Bird Protection Society of New Zealand
The National Wildlife Centre
Parrot Society of New Zealand


Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Diet, Health, Aviaries and Conservation: Forums

Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - Incest
 Forum FAQForum FAQ    SearchSearch     Log inLog in/Register  

Incest

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation Forum Index -> Kakariki Breeding in Captivity
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mainci
Member
Member


Joined: Oct 05, 2017
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:53 am    Post subject: Incest

Hi,

I had a couple and female laid eggs. Of course they were fertilized. 4 chicks hatched. 3 of them I gave it to my friends. But I decided to keep one chick for myself. After several weeks female died and now in cage I have father and daughter left. They have recently started mating.

My question is what can I do? Should I separate them? or leave how it is?

I think its bad idea to install nest right?

Thanks
Back to top
Steptoe
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 4550

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject:

Inbreeding has been used for 1000s of years to create animals.. and plant with selected attributes.
This is how certain bre3eds of dogs, cats even plants can be susceptible to things like heart conditions, poor bone structure etc.
Once these side effects get into the gene pool it becomes impossible to breed out.

Hence why any bird that we even suspect has a weakness gets culled.. regardless of any other aspect. Unfortunately most breeders are not ruthless about this.. and it very common to get these 'reject' birds passed onto pet shops.. then get bred from...
So the couple things I have to ask
1/ how old was the female? kakariki in captivity live from around 12 to 18 yrs.
2/ why did the demale die.. kakariki are one of the most hardy and tolerant of environment and diets around.

Kakariki being an endangered species, and has been very limited to the gene pool for well over 100 yrs now.
When inbreeding, for whatever reason, one is always looking for a new genetic pool as unrelated as possible.. One may breed back to a parent or even great grand patent.. but at least in every 2 levels of inbreeding new genetic material gets introduced.
If/ when one finds a genetic defect, it is traced back...everything that has been breed down that line gets culled out...
The chances are that your birds, due to lack of genetic blood lines available , could be many generations inbreed.

We found that when several blood lines, new and related, where put in a community flight, and let them select their own partners, they selected the most unrelated ....
We spent many yrs breeding hybridisation out of our wilds, by selecting the pairs. A breeder in europe made the suggestion to let them choose, the results we where looking for appeared in the 1st generations and improved from there on. The birds became larger healthier and far more robust.

_________________
My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
Back to top
mainci
Member
Member


Joined: Oct 05, 2017
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:16 pm    Post subject:

Thanks for your reply.

Female Kakariki was 1y and 2 months old. She died because I let her put eggs and incubate chicks twice in a row. As I found out later I should have given her some time to recover after the first round.

So should I separate them? or let them mate and just don't install the nest? So that daughter is not able to lay eggs.
Back to top
Steptoe
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 4550

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:01 pm    Post subject:

A pair of kakariki in a moderate climate in an outdoor aviary, good diet. Will produce a batch of 6 to 9 eggs every 8 to 12 weeks for 3 yrs non stop with around 80% egg to healthy adult ratio.
At around 110 healthy adults the number of chicks and eggs reduce dramatically . At around 130 healthy adults she will continue to lay eggs but will not hatch.
The rate of defective chicks/ young adults was around 1%.. these are birds that would if in the wild nature would have culled.
If mated to another mate , still the same.
Mate the male to another female and will start reproducing.

This is all stuff we have done/ experimented with personally.

_________________
My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
Back to top
mainci
Member
Member


Joined: Oct 05, 2017
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:08 pm    Post subject:

Interesting... I was told that I shouldn't allow kakariki to lay eggs more than once a year, because otherwise she would get weaker and die. That is the reason why I think that my female died because I let her incubate eggs twice in a row within 6 months period.

What about my question, should I separate now Father and Daughter?

Thanks :)
Back to top
Steptoe
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 4550

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:23 am    Post subject:

Quote:
should I separate now Father and Daughter?

Keep a look out for new stock.. preferably from a different part of the country, long way a way.

We where told a lot stuff, hence why we did a lot of hands on experiments.
So much is passed on wives tales... word of mouth...until actually 'test' yourself.

One was advacardos.. smaller parrots/ birds can crush the seed/
Along those lines, apple pear seeds... dont feed a full hand ful.. or eat that many yourself, arsenic...on the other hand arsenic is required in very minute quantities for balanced good health...
Ever seen a lot dead birds around a apple orchard.. that having been shot..no?
We eat quite bit fresh fruit, the cores/ pips etc are given to the birds.

Chocolate, believe so with dogs.. havnt tried.. my house parrot sulphur crested , many yrs ago regularly got into a chocolate bar left out.
W left a very rich self saucing pudding on the bench over night.. the king parrot got into it...loved it.. down side was the mess in the kitchen.. flapping trying to fly..

We had a crimson wing get into the rat poison.. raw palm oil being part of regular diet.. high in vit K... everyone expected her to die as was a long time before noticed and administer vit K ... didnt even get sick.

Experiments with poisonous plants/ big branches.. background was would a captive breed bird of many generations know / identify a poison plant if released into the wild. We left fresh branches.. several species, in the flight for over a week. They inspected then would not go to that end of the flight till branches removed.

_________________
My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation Forum Index -> Kakariki Breeding in Captivity All times are GMT + 13 Hours
Page 1 of 1
Copy Paste Text Here to Translate
Select Language and Translate

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by PHPBulletinBoard © 2001-2008 phpBulletinBoard Group
PHPBulletinBoard port based on Tom Nitzschner's PHPBulletinBoard upgraded to PHPBulletinBoard 2.0.7
Standalone Developed Tested by: ChatServ, mikem,
and Paul Laudanski (aka Zhen-Xjell).

by Nuke Cops 2004




All Logos and Trademarks in this site are Property of their Respective Owners.
Statements and Views Expressed on this web site Represent the Opinions of the Authors.
Neither this Site or the Publishers of this Site Assume Any Liability for the Information Contained Herein.
ANY CONTENT from this Site can only be DISTRIBUTED/PUBLISHED/USED ELSEWHERE with PRIOR WRITTEN PERMISSION
ALL COMMENTS/PICTURES/CONTENT are the PROPERTY of the CONTRIBUTORS and 2004/2015 by WWW.KAKARIKI.NET

Web site engine's code is Copyright © 2003 by NukePortal. All Rights Reserved. NukePortal is Free Software released under the GNU/GPL license.
Page Generation: 0.394 Seconds