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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - Par-Blue and Red Mutations Exist!!!
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Par-Blue and Red Mutations Exist!!!
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:48 pm    Post subject:

We have 2 blood lines of reds and 3 lines of yellows
I see no sign of any purple blue or blue in the tails of either.
Thu a several of ( red)siblings do have the main stem of 1 or 2 tail feathers that are very dark, (almost black) blue.
The tail feathers (red and yellow) are slightly varying shades of green, very similar to the back feathers, except when in the sunlight they are very floresenant.

The only signs we have of mutations are (reds only)
1/the occassional pink toe or claw, the underside of the wings may have the odd pale yellow stripe across or couple feathers.
2/The underside of the tail occassionally(normally pale green /gray) are pale yellow/gray.
I could not be positive to say the latter is "signs of mutation" or just normally sight variations in the species, maybe due to hatching order or something...I do stand to be corrected, in NZ, our experiance in mutations of kikes is at the most..nil, thu there are a couple studies I believe on actual wild kikes, thu I believe this was more on hybridisation.
All the above kikes are on birds in same enviroment and constant diet as described in the "what do u feed your kikes " thread

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Kaka-riki
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:36 am    Post subject:

We have recently agreed to write an article for a Australian magazine on Kakariki. In fairness to the editors we have agreed not to post any more pictures of our mutations. This includes pictures of our young red birds.

In return, the editors have allowed us the right to supply this article and all relevant pictures to this website. The magazine is due for release in Australia in July. Once that happens I will post additional pictures into our album for all to see.

We have a mutation here in Australia known as mottled pied. The young are born as normals but during the first moult turn to a full yellow colour.
There is some thought that perhaps our red mutation works in a similar way. The young do increase the amount of red during the moult. We have had our birds checked by a reputable vet and found all birds are healthy.
All our birds are fed the same diet and no others have shown this red feathering. The red hue has been seen in some birds here in Australia also but moults out as the birds age.

I think some overseas breeders find it hard to believe that we have two mutations in Kakariki that are very rare. But, you must consider that Kakariki became popular here about 10 years ago. At that time some breeders inbred to increase colour in the pied mutation and also bred cinnamon into their birds. Once the price dropped Kakariki were forgotten and dropped in numbers. We commenced our collection 5 years ago and bought several collections from breeders. Our breeding program has involved out crossing these birds back to normal birds perhaps this is why the new colours are now being produced. We have taken a lot of time to establish nutrition and diet for our birds. Our birds eat very little dry seed and instead get a good spread of sprouted seeds and vegetables. To my knowledge we are feeding a very different diet to other Australian breeders and contribute this to some of our success.
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Peter
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:55 am    Post subject:

In a search on the net to find out more about the inheritance of the red psittacin I discovered the following. A certain Hans Steiner , a Swiss, developed a classification program that is based upon changes in the production of colouring pigments and the building of feather structure. He divided the mutations in to 3 groups namely Melanin (M), Psittacin (P) and Structure of the feathers (S). In other types than parrots he replaced the psittacin by lypochrome (L).
These groups he subdivided them in to (1)Hypo = formation of …….. below-normal and (2)Hyper = formation of…….above-normal.
As mentioned by Kakariki the mutations we know in kakarikis can be placed in to Hypo melanism = formation of melanin below-normal.

On the other hand we can place a red mutation in to Hyper psittacin = formation of psittacin above normal. This is called “erythrism”.
A search on the net learned me that this is extreme rare in the wild but not so rare in captivity.
Except a few birds I’ve found a picture of a red Leppard. In humans, the red hair is also an example of erythrism.

In the past people called the red and yellow pigments carotenoid pigments but it seems not possible to intensify the colour of parrots with chemical expedients. There is some research done in Italy concerning the psittacin. They found four new pigment components. Polyenals. (see http://www.birdhobbyist.com/parrotcolour/macawplumage.pdf

The only parrot I’ve found who shows “erythrism” (probably there are more) is the Bourke. In the original wild type Bourke the red and yellow pigments are restricted to the front side of the plumage. Today the yellow and red psittacine is extended and intensified in the whole back side. And this you can also see in the margins of the back coverts and the wing coverts of the wildtype.

Domestication seems to be the most important factor in the development of the psittacin pigments in the Bourke. (source: http://www.bourkes-parakeet.nl/pg/E-version.html

Peter

Edit: links fixed.
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kakariki
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:30 am    Post subject:

Peter, thanks for the link to the bourks parakeet. I didn't know this site and besite kakariki I like the rubino bourk as wel. It shows more colourvariaty than I thought
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Kaka-riki
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:22 am    Post subject:

Guys,
I have made another discovery today in regards to our red mutation. We recently hatched one chick and during the first weeks the young bird showed a red colour skin. It had very little down covering the body like you would expect from a normal bird. Some people said this showed signs of illness. But, we waited to see the results.
The chick has now feathered and shows some red feathering on the shoulder areas. But, today I compared the leg and toe colours of this chick with the original cock bird. Both have a red colouring to the legs and toes. This is most noticeable when compared to the colour of the normal pied bird. This would indicate to me that not only is the feathering colour altered in this mutation but also skin colour. It will be interesting to check the other birds bred from this cock bird.
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Peterlimburg
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:24 am    Post subject:

Kaka-riki wrote:
Guys,
I have made another discovery today in regards to our red mutation. We recently hatched one chick and during the first weeks the young bird showed a red colour skin. It had very little down covering the body like you would expect from a normal bird. Some people said this showed signs of illness. But, we waited to see the results.
The chick has now feathered and shows some red feathering on the shoulder areas. But, today I compared the leg and toe colours of this chick with the original cock bird. Both have a red colouring to the legs and toes. This is most noticeable when compared to the colour of the normal pied bird. This would indicate to me that not only is the feathering colour altered in this mutation but also skin colour. It will be interesting to check the other birds bred from this cock bird.


Very interesting, but how goes it further Think
Now two years later :?:
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criaderonesty
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:38 am    Post subject: New mutation

Hi every one, well I am a breder of kaka from Lima peru.
After to some years here we have the lutino and fallow.
Now about the pictuures I like to know if exist this new mutation.
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pabloc
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:24 pm    Post subject:

Hola Ricardo!

the bird of the picture, if I'm not mistaken, died, but it's believed it was not a mutation, but rather a defect due to malnutrition.

There are rumors going on, all the time about a blue mutation in kakariki, but... for now no real pics.

(El pájaro de la foto murió. Se cree que no era mut. si no una deficiencia alimentaria. Hay rumores continuamente sobre kakarikis azules en Europa pero de momento... nada de nada).

Saludos / Pablo

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Freddie
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:30 pm    Post subject:

pabloc wrote:
, but it's believed it was not a mutation, but rather a defect due to malnutrition.

/ Pablo

This blue bird looked strange, why wasn´t the forehead and cheeks white?

What about the red one, any news?

Wich mutation exists in europe?

The birds with red hue, are they common and in what countrys are they present? I Shore would like to get a hold on a couple of those!

Any new mutations at all (dark faktor, violet, opaline ...)?
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pabloc
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:09 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Any new mutations at all (dark faktor, violet, opaline ...)?


Only rumors... and more rumors.
Recently reading Dirk V.d. Abelee book on agapornis about the dark factor mutation he says that in most species it took several years to distinguish the single factor birds (dark green) from the wildtype form, and the same happens probably with the violet mutation.
Maybe... they exist already but they are still unnoticed.

The opaline mutation seems to exist already on yellow-fronted kakariki and it has been discussed on the forum, but apparently it transmits autosomal recessive so no opaline, and from the pics, I believe it's maybe just an allele of pied.
There are pictures at vogelarena.com

No news neither about red-bellied kakariki but I believe this might take several years of work to really see any progress.
Someone that made great progress is Peter Wouters, and I expect his success breeding this selection.

But... don't worry. They say once in a while the sun shines on every dog's ass, and we'll get our turn!

For now we have a lot of work to improve the existing mutations and also the wildcolors!

Cheers / Pablo

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leos
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 1:58 am    Post subject: Re: Par-Blue and Red Mutations Exist!!!

www.kakariki-blue.eu
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Georg
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 8:29 am    Post subject:

Here in germany and on Facebook pictures of the "blue" mutations (possibly there are two) are very common, the colours of the birds... o.K. might be photoshop, but somewhat is looking quiet real. Never have seen one for myself.
I'm not that mutation-junkie and don't want to show to be curious to visit the breeders that are posting to breed them. wall
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:30 am    Post subject:

There has been no doubt of the mutation being legit achieved in Europe for a while now.
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Peter
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 10:05 pm    Post subject:

The last I've heard about these birds is that they still show small amounts of psittacine(yellow and red pigment). If you look close you will notice a faint Orange tinge in the crown and a greenish sheen on the wings. Some people believe it is actually a Turquoise mutation. Interestingly there appears some variation in this mutation in other species varying from slightly greenish to almost entirely Blue. Also the amount of psittacine reduction varies over the body.

Below an example of a normal peach-faced Agapornis (left) and a Turquoise(right)
Source: http://www.petinfoclub.com
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Daniel
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:28 am    Post subject:

The blue can now be easily acquired in Europe, although the price is still quite steep. I have seen several blue birds. Some of them indeed show a bit of a green shine on the feathers. I am one of those who believe it is a partial-psittacine reduction although the reduction is probably 90 - 95%.

I am a bit considered about the size of the birds as they are quite small. For the rest I guess it will be a very common mutation in 2 yeas time.
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